Comments on: Rafael van der Vaart in Top 25

By: tiju

tiju — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:46:52 +0000

Ok jans idea is good
MOVE ONE BRAIN BACK ZNIJDER?OK AGREED
if we are taking znijder as holding mid it will very good but who has the stamina for 90 minutes
raf?roban?vanpersie? no hope at all.
i would say players like znijder give more balence to the team ratherthan vanpersie,roban,vaart,
i would like to see
Stekel
heitinga,-luirink,-marcelis, -eric pieters

de jong- de guzman

vaart- znijder -roban

huntlaar
subs-babel
vanpersie
if we moves znidjer back according to that we should keep the balence

By: Caleb

Caleb — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:09:21 +0000

Moving the brains back is a decent option, but I think that should mean moving the brains back to defensive midfielder – Bommel’s already there and we can maybe move Sneijder there. There’s no way I would put Sneijder at center back, and even Van Bommel would be a huge liability. The problem with moving them all the way back to defense is that you gain the brains, but loose the ability to defend (which is also important!).

By: lowiesje

lowiesje — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:34:24 +0000

Interesting analysises about our defenders, but the only one who could immediality could fit in is obviously Marcellis and, perhaps, Pieters. Zuiverloon is questionable, since he is not playing with a topclub, although he’s playing in the EPL. I’m concerned he could end up as a benchwarmer, since the level of the competition could be to much for him.
We have many talented defenders, but most of them lack the spirit of becoming a great defender. Forget about Urby, Maduro, Donk, they are to flegmatic; some others are injury-prone, like Vlaar, or coming back from injureries and it will give some time before they even catch up with the promising level they have. I’d like to see these guys, like Luirink and Schaars, they could play for a year, or so, at toplevel before I would even mention them as a fully international. It’s a pity, though, because these three guys do really have the insight of a built-up. But they are not there, yet. Do I sound a bit harsh? Maybe so, but one should not forget we can only play with the players we have, and are available. Van Bommel is an option as cb, even Heitinga (I like his passing, although he’s a bit overdoing it). Sneijder could do it, also, but then again, he’s maybe to short for a cb (he’s not that tall). All in all it is a problem, the built-up, I mean, which Goose already mentioned, and our former coach Van Basten was desperately seeking for it. Marco has pointed out numerous times this was our main problem, but he could not solve it.

By: goose

goose — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:02:07 +0000

Vermeer is having a strong start this season, he looks better than i thought

Marcellis has the best change of beeing our new Jaap Stam but like Stam he too has problems with his passing game

think the Jan solution (bring the brains back) is valid, we need more ‘football’ in defense to keep the pressure of that same defense, the sooner the ball is in midfield or attack (and stays there) the better!

@tjiu; agreed on the ‘fear’, esp. Mathijsen looks kind of afraid to make a mistake

By: tiju

tiju — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:20:35 +0000

Like goose Statement stekelenburg has charisma and he is more courageous than van der sar.(we need such kind of players)
Our main problem is with diffence mainly they are fearfull personals(i mean they fears the opponent a lot,i wondered why they were not urinating in their trouser, may be their bladder may be strong ,they dont have confidence in their ability.)
initially i was happy with Vlaar,Drenthe,crompkamp,urby,donk these are all have good skills for top football but they are not in the path of a FOCUSED PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER like stam and de boar.
heitinga is good in offencive areas but purly a fearfull person WC is not for this kind of guys
Bula is courages person but bit like a fool if he improves we can take him as substitute centraldiffender.
I expect the step up of
Calvin jong
Eric peiters
Marcelis
Zuiverloon
luirink(this guy has good leadership skills in the back)
with roban and vanpersie we wont get balence in the team same with raf nad znijder.
more our players dont have the stamina for 90 minutes.i think philip cocu will take care of this,he can help our team from this trouble.
if we want to win WC our players should be fit enough to play at least 150 minutes.africans will out run everybody,dont for get ivory coast ok ok ok

By: Jan

Jan — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:14:41 +0000

I like Stekelenburg. Did you guys notice the resemblance to 300’s Gerrard Butler?

By: Felipe dos Santos Souza

Felipe dos Santos Souza — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:32:11 +0000

Wow, I just put my opinion on the defenders and then, bang!, the discussion started. And the matter here is Rafa! Well, let’s go.

I confess that, reading my first comment, I should have expressed more my opinions about Dutch defenders. Well, I maintain that no one of them have, as Jan said, the quality of starting the playmaking from behind, as Krol, Koeman or Rijkaard (also Spelbos?) could do greatly. In ‘74, Cruyff, Neeskens, Van Hanegem and Rensenbrink had the help of Krol (and also Haan, who was in truth a MF made in a CB). In ‘78, Haan and Krol remained at this role. On ’80s, Koeman and Rijkaard alternated themselves at this role. And, even during Stam times, Frank de Boer was good at bringing the ball to the midfield.

Nowadays, Oranje defenders are not that good on this quality. I even think that Heitinga can improve his techniques, as well as Boulah can turn into a new Stam. Marcellis looks like he’s ready to replace Ooijer when he retires. Emanuelson should be more tested on LB (he should be at Euro!). If Urby don’t work, Kromkamp should receive a new try.

With goalies, I think there’s no problem: I do trust on Stekelenburg. And, even if Maarten was garbage, he’s the only one in a good age to become first-choice: Timmer and Boschker are near retiring, while Velthuizen and Vermeer deserve their chances just after two or three years. I just think “Stekelbaars” can improve a little in Oranje shirt. But in Ajax he does very good. An excellent penalty-stopper.

But, by now, the only ones we can count are Van Bommel and Nigel, who were praised by Bert against Russia. They can help defense.

By: Michel-Olivier

Michel-Olivier — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:29:55 +0000

@ jan
“the French, Italian, German and Spanish”
also the russians

By: Jan

Jan — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:26:16 +0000

I think it’s all relative. Compared to the quality of midfielders/strikers our defenders are mediocre. We have world class players and our back line is not world class.

Secondly, comparing our back four with line ups of past generations makes us come up short today.

But more importantly, as Goose pointed out, our style of football relies on good and fast build up play from the back! The type of passing (and vision) that Koeman/Krol/Blind/Rijkaard/ brought to the team is lacking.

This is what allowed us to outplay opponents in the past. Our offense started at the back. These players saw the game, could pass a ball and could move up to midfield to pressure opponents. This type of play is basically non-existent now. And I remember how we even criticized Jaap Stam in the 90s because despite being a great defender, he was relatively weak in build up.

Today, we lack Stam-quality defending and the football skills!

Therefore I say: move the brains back. Either Van Bommel (great passer) or Sneijder. Or anyone else.

I think Heitinga is the only player today (in Oranje’s back line up) who has a decent pass.

To top it off, most modern successful teams rely on their fullbacks for build up as well. Most are tough defenders, fast runners, good dribblers and have a decent cross in. Our full backs pale to the comparison with the French, Italian, German and Spanish counterparts. Sorry Gio.

Urby might have. Drenthe might have. Kromkamp showed his promise, but somehow the ideal candidates never really made their mark.

By: Carlos

Carlos — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:55:44 +0000

@Alex
Superb summaton of our defenders, think too that Heitinga is OK and could develop further. As van Tiggelen said in his interview,only Boula reminds him of himself and if Marcellis comes in, Zuiverloon etc we should be OK. I do like the idea of fitting in Kuyt as a wingback somewhere. It’s like having 2 players on the right side. But I am a firm believer in attack is best form of defence and if we have fast and penetrating wingers that keep their defence busy, then they have fewer players in the middle which vBommel and de Jong should then control.