Rafael van der Vaart in Top 25

I think finally Rafael has the chance to prove himself as that marvelously skilled midfielder he appeared to be when he arose at Ajax. Not that he was bad at HSV – exactly the opposite, the Hamburgers will struggle to find a playmaker as good as he was -, but now he plays at a G-14 team. It’s like go through the last stage of a difficult videogame.

And, if he does good on Madrid, he will surely become the master of Oranje midfield, if he isn’t yet. In my opinion, he is more a “think man” than a hard man, like Sneijder (not that Wesley doesn’t know how to deal with the ball, but he attacks and defends with the same stamina). And that can be very useful. Mainly when we see that Robben and Van Persie are not that reliable when the talk is physical condition…

Anyway, the midfield and attack are not the problem. The heart of the matter is how Bert will cope with the chronic lack of trustability of the defense. Boulah, Ooijer, Joris, Heitinga… all good defenders, but just good, not excellent, not the “looks-like-invincible” kind of backs. And that worries me, on a World Cup.

Agree Felipe Sadly no Jaap Stam no van Tiggelen no Ruud Krol)….Interesting that Sir Alex said Jaap Stam was the BEST defender in the world in his eyes. Guess he was in many of ours too.
I used to think Raf was better than Wes, now I think the opposite, especially if I am asked to make a choice as to who I would choose if I can only have ONE ! Bring on Marcellis !

Posted from  Singapore

hmm; think Sneijder is the main man on midfield, its true that vdVaart has learned how to play hard at HSV but Sneijder is the better player its difficult for vMarwijk to make the right team…too much of the same kind of players up front

the real problem i have with our defense is not so much the defending part but the passing to midfield and attack; any defender will make a mistake or 2 during a game but the real problem we have is that the built up is far too slow and too predictable thus slowing everything down

Posted from  Netherlands

Speaking of Bolt, here’s a nice video of him racing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSpPaCIG0g

Posted from  Canada

@ Caleb
hahaha

Posted from  United States

you shouldn’t be bitching about Heitinga or Boulahrouz, if i might say so WTF are you talking about, these two are excellent defenders, and both still have room for growth at 24 and 26 years old. After everyone really started complaining about our defenders, i started trying to analyse our oranje defenders and pretty much every decent (mostly young)dutch defender around. My conclusion so far. The problem isn’t with these two, the problem lies with the very average duo Ooijer-Mathijsen that somehow made it almost 3 years under V.Basten and at least for now, under V.Marwijk. Mathijsen never looks really comfortable and when he seems to play well, he always leaves a few gaps and makes some pretty horrible but not always obvious mistakes. And i noticed Boulahrouz often had to drift to the left to clean up for Mathijsen, not very obvious, but it was a very important fact of the match against Macedonia. the Macedonians often broke through over our left-flank, so that tells me something is wrong there and i’m pretty sure Mathijsen is one of the problems.
Ooijer never was more then a pretty good defender but the last years i noticed him making more and more mistakes, letting go of his marked man(dont know if this is the correct english for it). Leaving obvious gaps, getting beaten on speed time and again. in one-on-one situations and high balls,he looks decent, but nothing more than a mediate blackburn player.
Now at the EC whe could all see how good Boulahrouz can be, making very little mistakes, good tackle, speed, and often stopping counters in an early stage. He might improve a bit in situations where for example the opponent shields the ball and tries to get past him, certain kinds of one-on-one situations where the attacker is speeding and makes an action, like a faint-shot or something. But dont forget what a blow he had with the death of his baby, and admit it, after the EC matches, Boulah pretty much turned into a cult-hero with his performances, and now we should drop him.

Now, Heitinga played well for Ajax and oranje as a central defender, and deserved his transfer to Atletico. Now i must say it’s pretty early in the season but so far he earned himself a place in the starting XI and makes an impressive center with Ujfalusi. even earning praise by Spanish press, not something you can do by being an average defender now is it. If he continues to play like this, he could be well on his way to become one of the leading pillars of Atletico, which has the possibility of winning the title. Heitinga has his career in his own hands, and may well become one of the best defenders in Europe. Now i feel he should have a central role in dutch defence, as a center back, there he has more of an impact, like with Atletico, perhaps in a duo with Boulahrouz, cause Ujfalusi’s playing style is similar to that of Boulah.

now i think Boulah and Heitinga should be in at all times. Boulah can play right-back or center. De Jong can play right-back as well, making it possible to move Boulah next to Heitinga in center, Zuiverloon could also become our right-back later on if he keeps developing with Bromwich.

So i say dont despare, Boulahrouz and Heitinga will do fine, Gio is our best left-back for now, and somehow we have to improvise until the problem Mathijsen can be resolved once and for all. either with a new RB: De Jong, Zuiverloon, or a new CB like Marcellis(either him or Boulah to the right if Marcellis is to come in the starting XI),and besides them we have lots of defenders who could develop to quality defenders; Vlaar, Luirink, Donk, Kruiswijk, Loovens, Braafheid, Pieters.

Posted from  Netherlands

haha .. funny clip Caleb

Posted from  Netherlands

i have a question and its been bugging me for awhile, why isn’y drenthe with the orange team

@ian; Drenthe is not there because of youth, inconsistency, and very bad attitude.

Gio is becoming average and less consistent these days. He’s a valuable assets for his experience, but I think he won’t last until 2010. Van Marwijk should draft Pieters to play LB. He’s quick, tough and knows how to defend. I agree that Heitinga and Boulahrouz are the best options at the moment for right back and centre half, respectively. I’d like to see Marcellis given a chance to take the other CB position. For back ups, I would not mind Mathijsen, Ooijer and Braafheid. I don’t think Vlaar, Kruiswijk, and Luirink will ever make it to top level. Donk is possible, but he has made a huge mistake by joining WBA, a table bottom specialist. WBA will get a new coach before long, and Donk will be back to the shelf. Ditto with Zuiverloon. Watch closely Van der Wiel, Jong-A-Pin, and Luijckx, they may be surprise package.

i have no problem with heitinga and boulahrouz in central defense. the only reason mathijsen and ooijer look good in the euro was because of v.d.sar was having a good tourney, without v.d.sar they suck.

bert if your reading play heitinga and boulahrouz in central defense.

Posted from  United States

@Alex
Superb summaton of our defenders, think too that Heitinga is OK and could develop further. As van Tiggelen said in his interview,only Boula reminds him of himself and if Marcellis comes in, Zuiverloon etc we should be OK. I do like the idea of fitting in Kuyt as a wingback somewhere. It’s like having 2 players on the right side. But I am a firm believer in attack is best form of defence and if we have fast and penetrating wingers that keep their defence busy, then they have fewer players in the middle which vBommel and de Jong should then control.

Posted from  Singapore

@ jan
“the French, Italian, German and Spanish”
also the russians

Posted from  United States

Wow, I just put my opinion on the defenders and then, bang!, the discussion started. And the matter here is Rafa! Well, let’s go.

I confess that, reading my first comment, I should have expressed more my opinions about Dutch defenders. Well, I maintain that no one of them have, as Jan said, the quality of starting the playmaking from behind, as Krol, Koeman or Rijkaard (also Spelbos?) could do greatly. In ‘74, Cruyff, Neeskens, Van Hanegem and Rensenbrink had the help of Krol (and also Haan, who was in truth a MF made in a CB). In ‘78, Haan and Krol remained at this role. On ’80s, Koeman and Rijkaard alternated themselves at this role. And, even during Stam times, Frank de Boer was good at bringing the ball to the midfield.

Nowadays, Oranje defenders are not that good on this quality. I even think that Heitinga can improve his techniques, as well as Boulah can turn into a new Stam. Marcellis looks like he’s ready to replace Ooijer when he retires. Emanuelson should be more tested on LB (he should be at Euro!). If Urby don’t work, Kromkamp should receive a new try.

With goalies, I think there’s no problem: I do trust on Stekelenburg. And, even if Maarten was garbage, he’s the only one in a good age to become first-choice: Timmer and Boschker are near retiring, while Velthuizen and Vermeer deserve their chances just after two or three years. I just think “Stekelbaars” can improve a little in Oranje shirt. But in Ajax he does very good. An excellent penalty-stopper.

But, by now, the only ones we can count are Van Bommel and Nigel, who were praised by Bert against Russia. They can help defense.

I like Stekelenburg. Did you guys notice the resemblance to 300’s Gerrard Butler?

Like goose Statement stekelenburg has charisma and he is more courageous than van der sar.(we need such kind of players)
Our main problem is with diffence mainly they are fearfull personals(i mean they fears the opponent a lot,i wondered why they were not urinating in their trouser, may be their bladder may be strong ,they dont have confidence in their ability.)
initially i was happy with Vlaar,Drenthe,crompkamp,urby,donk these are all have good skills for top football but they are not in the path of a FOCUSED PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER like stam and de boar.
heitinga is good in offencive areas but purly a fearfull person WC is not for this kind of guys
Bula is courages person but bit like a fool if he improves we can take him as substitute centraldiffender.
I expect the step up of
Calvin jong
Eric peiters
Marcelis
Zuiverloon
luirink(this guy has good leadership skills in the back)
with roban and vanpersie we wont get balence in the team same with raf nad znijder.
more our players dont have the stamina for 90 minutes.i think philip cocu will take care of this,he can help our team from this trouble.
if we want to win WC our players should be fit enough to play at least 150 minutes.africans will out run everybody,dont for get ivory coast ok ok ok

Posted from  India

Vermeer is having a strong start this season, he looks better than i thought

Marcellis has the best change of beeing our new Jaap Stam but like Stam he too has problems with his passing game

think the Jan solution (bring the brains back) is valid, we need more ‘football’ in defense to keep the pressure of that same defense, the sooner the ball is in midfield or attack (and stays there) the better!

@tjiu; agreed on the ‘fear’, esp. Mathijsen looks kind of afraid to make a mistake

Posted from  Netherlands

Interesting analysises about our defenders, but the only one who could immediality could fit in is obviously Marcellis and, perhaps, Pieters. Zuiverloon is questionable, since he is not playing with a topclub, although he’s playing in the EPL. I’m concerned he could end up as a benchwarmer, since the level of the competition could be to much for him.
We have many talented defenders, but most of them lack the spirit of becoming a great defender. Forget about Urby, Maduro, Donk, they are to flegmatic; some others are injury-prone, like Vlaar, or coming back from injureries and it will give some time before they even catch up with the promising level they have. I’d like to see these guys, like Luirink and Schaars, they could play for a year, or so, at toplevel before I would even mention them as a fully international. It’s a pity, though, because these three guys do really have the insight of a built-up. But they are not there, yet. Do I sound a bit harsh? Maybe so, but one should not forget we can only play with the players we have, and are available. Van Bommel is an option as cb, even Heitinga (I like his passing, although he’s a bit overdoing it). Sneijder could do it, also, but then again, he’s maybe to short for a cb (he’s not that tall). All in all it is a problem, the built-up, I mean, which Goose already mentioned, and our former coach Van Basten was desperately seeking for it. Marco has pointed out numerous times this was our main problem, but he could not solve it.

Posted from  Netherlands

Moving the brains back is a decent option, but I think that should mean moving the brains back to defensive midfielder – Bommel’s already there and we can maybe move Sneijder there. There’s no way I would put Sneijder at center back, and even Van Bommel would be a huge liability. The problem with moving them all the way back to defense is that you gain the brains, but loose the ability to defend (which is also important!).

Ok jans idea is good
MOVE ONE BRAIN BACK ZNIJDER?OK AGREED
if we are taking znijder as holding mid it will very good but who has the stamina for 90 minutes
raf?roban?vanpersie? no hope at all.
i would say players like znijder give more balence to the team ratherthan vanpersie,roban,vaart,
i would like to see
Stekel
heitinga,-luirink,-marcelis, -eric pieters

de jong- de guzman

vaart- znijder -roban

huntlaar
subs-babel
vanpersie
if we moves znidjer back according to that we should keep the balence

Posted from  India