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Oranje: what did we learn?
Comments(48)
We sometimes tend to over estimate our national team. Sure, in 1974 and 1990 we should have won it. Without a doubt. In 1998, we could have won it. And in 2010 we were extremely close too, if Robben and Webb had done their jobs (and Casillas handn’t).
But we do tend to believe we are better than we really are.
In 2008, we played three astonishing games at group level, only to lose our mojo against Russia. I personally still believe the Boulahrouz tragedy was the main cause, but it doesn’t matter for the result. In 2006 we didn’t have the mental stability (nor coaching experience) to overcome the extra-ordinary circumstances while in most other case we simply came up short…
With our 1978 campaign as the most endearing one. What courage, to alsmost steal the win in the last minute, in that boiling stadium in Argentina amongst rabid fans and evil generals?
Rensenbrink’s claim to fame….
Ferenc made a strong assessment after the Germany friendly ( as he always does) and compared Oranje to Barcelona ( the best team in the world ™).
Barca plays with one holding midfielder, swiftly drifting wingers, very capable offensive thinking full backs and without a static striker ( Lionel Messi).
Couldn’t Oranje play like this?
The drifting wingers, we do have (when all our players are fit). Afellay fits the bill, and so do Van der Vaart ( slightly less so, but still), Robben, Elia, Wijnaldum, Beerens… I think De Guzman can play like this too… Babel is a tad limited as he lacks the technical skills in the small spaces but hey….no one is perfect. ( Messi can’t rap).
The dynamic striker, we certainly have one of those in Robin van Persie. If Robin is injured, Van der Vaart van play that role. Wijnaldum too.
One holding midfielder shouldn’t be a problem for Oranje. We have many.
We do have two potentially good full backs for this game too, in Van der Wiel and Pieters. Pieters impressed me with his crosses and Van der Wiel on form is simply irresistable. But Pieters is out with injury. And Van der Wiel is not 100%.
Do we have good alternatives? We don’t…. Braafheid and Boulah have disappointed, yet again. It’s a bit desperate to come up with the names of Jetro Willems (PSV), Bart Schenkeveld and Stefan de Vrij ( Feyenoord) but it does seem we need to find fresh blood to replace the current understudies.
Drenthe
Royston Drenthe will also remain to be a candidate for the left flank as far as I’m concerned, but Everton doesn’t use him as a full back and his discipline will be an issue. But he has the physical strength, the speed and the skills to play in Oranje. Ronnie Stam was a good option for the right, for me, but Wigan hardly uses the former Twente and to say that Wigan oozes quality is overstating it… Van Aanholt could be the man for the future of course, he has impressed me greatly, just as Rekik at Man City is an impressive player.
Bob’s clinical analysis the other day is 100% on the mark: we should quickly start developing quality defenders! Although that won’t help us next summer!
I don’t see enough Dutch football to know if the sub top has any quality full backs in their midsts, but someone like Alex or Goose might be able to fill us in… Utrecht? Groningen? Vitesse? Den Haag? As far as I remember, AZ and Twente, two top teams today, use foreign players as full backs. Something that will disgust Cruyff and Van Hanegem if memory serves me well.
And to add to the optimism ( I’m cynical here): Barca plays with two top center backs. We don’t. Mathijsen seems to be at the end of his international career. Can’t blame him really. He has done well for us. If we had someone like Blind, De Boer, Koeman or Rijkaard, he’d never have a single cap. But we didn’t, so we used Joris and he’s done what he can.
It’s time for new blood. And if we need to use Douglas’ Brazilian blood, than so be it. Vlaar? Questionmark… Glenn Loovens? Disappeared. Maduro? And option but injured… Marcellis? Bruma? Is he ready?
Douglas is ready….
We need a top killer at the back ( Douglas?) and we can add a holding midfielder like Strootman to the back four. As libero. He’s strong enough to defend (tall, fast) and good enough to read the game and move to midfield whenever possible. Van Bommel/De Jong and Strootman could work this together well.
Add Sneijder and Van der Vaart to the midfield ( Schaars/Fer/Wijnaldum/ Afellay/Kuyt/Janssen/Maher even Van Persie could sub these two if needed) and use real wingers at in the front three. Robben, for sure. Elia, maybe. Ola John? Wijnaldum? Beerens? Babel? Kuyt?
For the center striker, options galore. Benching Huntelaar is a sad thing, but on a big tourney, you need class ( Klaas?) on the bench. With Luuk de Jong, Ricky Wolf, Nacer Barazite and Luc Castaignos somewhere lurking behind, not forgetting ol’ Ruud in Malaga even….
Let’s look at what our analists said about the Germany game…
Jan van Halst, tv analist, former FC Twente general manager
‘Two things: we have a small group of world class players. If three are missing, we have trouble replacing them. And second, our defense is even more vulnerable than I though. Our center backs seemed clueless at time and I also had a bit of a shock with Van Bommel. He looked as if he’s past his peak. Will he be the man for us at the Euro 2012? Players kept on running past him, it seemed the game went too fast for him….”
Gertjan Verbeek, AZ coach:
‘To start off: friendlies are not a true barometer to the national team. All that pre-match stuff about 1974 and 1988 was all media crap. What I call, the attention and tension span has dropped since these lads qualified. They are focusing on their clubs. I also watched this game while reading the new drawings for the house I’m building. After the 2-0, I only looked up if the voice of the commentator had some tension. I don’t like the criticism on Braafheid. He was seriously let down by his center backs and I believe our midfield had a day off. Again. But you know what? It’s getting too much for these guys. The pressure at the clubs is so high. The program is too full. Friendlies…whenever I have tickets, I give them away.”
Danny Hesp, chairman of the VVCS (players union) and ex Ajax defender:
‘We believed we were invincible. Well, we’re awake now. Normally, our defense doesn’t get tested like this, because our forwards put lots of pressure on opponents. But without them, we copped it at the back.”
Witschge in a friendly against Germany
Richard Witschge, ex- international and former Barc and Ajax player:
‘What I found remarkable were the running patterns of the Germans. Look at their goals, it’s touch and go. But let’s not panic. They had a sensational run and now they’re outclassed. It’s a shame but not necessarily bad news. Dutch teams need to crashland sometimes and it’s better that it happens now.”
Hans van Breukelen, ex-goalie Oranje and PSV:
‘I enjoy listening to analists like Marco and Ruud, but let’s not get beside ourselves. There is nothing wrong with losing. Our defense was crap, yes. But we said they were before the World Cup and then they played so well. It’s important that they perform when they have to and I think they will.”
Hansl in an unfriendly against Germany…
Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 48 comments.
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Good one, thanks Jan
Agree with Eric 100%..
Posted from 
Canada
Edurado,,, kuyt doesnt have speed he can never play as an RB or full back.its surprise that he played 84 games for orange and he plays for liverpool…kuyt is the not only the issue..brapheid,bulah and abel also should say good bye to orange…Bommel an joris too..if we dont play with these guys we can see better fuild game and we can beat top teams…see capello is winning everything with freshblood,no lampard,gerad,terry,rio any more….
i followed some youngster and i found only few are good enoguh to play in orange…those are Anas acchbar,Adam maher,van annholt,Douglas,bruma (as RB) and jordy clasu are best amonug them…all these guys play better than the seniors in orange in their respective position…so they desreve a call up..
BVM doesnt have to select deneboom…but he try at least like gogi low does and even capello does.
i think capello learned from his mistake…he had some slow defenders against a speedy german young boys and we know the tragic end of england.Something like that will happen to orange in ec12 if he doesnt change…
Tiju, i put Kuyt there just because he is very usefull player (center strike, wing, midfield and maybe RB) but with this tema, the main option are VdW and Heitinga as sub. Heitinga can play center and rigth back.
People say Elia,babel,drenthe all talent….and it is true…but they are all headless chickens we cannot feild them against the wizards like xavi,ozil,wesley,raf,klose,persie,roben,ineastas,busquets….but i do agree that they possess better threat than kuyt like players…
when you play with a line up of
——–Persie————-
Kuyt——-Znijder——-Roben
—–Dejong—Bommel————
Peiters——————Weil
——joris—Johny————–
———-steke—————–
1-You will have only 3 dangerous players(WES,Persie,Rob
2-opponet will have no threat from kuyt’s wing
3-the opponent wing back will start attacking,coz he knows that kuyt is not a threat..this will cause more danger
4.Bommel is too slow now and no where near to schewni,mascherano,Busquets,khedira tec..
5.We need better work rate from holdng mids.bommelcannot do that any more.
6.Joris is ghost of old joris and age affecetd him.he reminds me Mathew upson of england against germany.
7.luuk dejong is not an orange material..i hope castaginos and ricky will step in to plate
people think that with out kuyt,babel,bulah.bommel and brapheid orange cannot play well…that prededicated thinking is very wrong……..we should plan this EC with out forementioned players..they all got enough chances and coz of znjider,persie,roben,dejong and joris we had some success,,if they really love the dutch they should not play of dutch anymore…for the sake of ducth
Eduardo, I must say that link you posted with the write-up was sensational. Poignant observations and a must read.
Tiju: please,stop your kuyt rants. We all know he’s not in form,agree on that in his actual form his place is on the bench,but you overreact his role in the last three – not important – games. he has done a lot for oranje,now he’s getting older.
one more thing Tiju: everyone knows here that i’m a big barca fan,but saying that busquets is a wizard even for me is too much. he’s more skilled than usual holding midfielders,does very well his job (although not as good as yaya toure)but he’s far from real wizards… yaya is a real wizard,davids was a real wizard
only now do i see the first pic where Bert v Marwijk is turned into Bert from sesamystreet! haha.. well done!!
Posted from 
Netherlands
Hi Everyone – by the way, last time I opened one of those online website proposed by Oscar I got hit by a virus and my computer had to be fixed. So please beware of the website you propose to us.
I watched the Germany game and the problem to me was simple! The build up game – Sneijder had no where to go and the wingers (Kuyt and Babel) offered too little. Kuyt lost most of the balls and Babel played well but his final touch was terrible.
Defense wasn’t as terrible but Braafied was! All the goals came from his side (with the assistance of De Jong on the 3rd goal).
One thing is definitely sure – we miss killer players at this point – RvP, Robben and Afellay – even VDV!
Last thing – BvM should stick with the players playing consistently – so dropping Heitinga, De Jong, Kuyt
Posted from 
United States
Eduardo: yes, you have that right. Merely mentioning a what-if scenario. What is written in the linked article as mentioned comes close to that scenario.
I don’t write for the Germans no. They can’t afford me 
. I guess that guy is called Jan too…
Expect an article on the future players some time soon, but yes…we do have typical “Huntelaar-Dutch” lads still. Clasie is one of them of course. De Vrij. Schenkeveld. Ramstein. Wolf. De De Jong Bros.
Posted from 
Australia
Ajax is a tremendous mess!
Posted from Australia
Not much point in discussing attacking options for me… Depends on fitness.. We rule attack once we’re all fit!
I am thinking Hietinga could still be great for us (minus THAT red card, unfair or not).
In his defense, I believe the reason he wasnt starting for a while was because he was injured for a bit – only started in the last 2 Everton matches prior to the break.. also had an own goal in the last match v Newcastle so poor form still.. 
also, Everton usually gain momentum in the spring, he can come good still..
Not so sure about Mathijsen though, he has lots to gain to hold his spot..
Posted from Canada
Can someone tell me please what’s wrong with Ajax ?
and what’s that cruyff-louis debate ?
Heitinga, krul, vorm are in starting lineup epl tonight, dejong on the bench as well as aanholt, why wigan loan loan him if he on the bench? Is it because wigan focus on defending which is aanholt rather weak at?
Posted from Australia
>We need a top killer at the back ( Douglas?) and we >can add a holding midfielder like Strootman to the >back four. As libero. He’s strong enough to defend >tall, fast) and good enough to read the game and move >to midfield whenever possible. Van Bommel/De Jong >andStrootman could work this together well.
Amen… Let’s do it ! Enough to beat *ANYONE*
Posted from United States
Growth and building for the future is always as important as winning now. For starters I think the 2010 WC should be the last tournaments for v.Bommel, Kuyt, Mathijsen. We have younger talent we can bring in. Never do we ever need Babel or Braafheid. As much as I would love for Oranje to start playing the Barca style they innovated I don’t see BvM completely changing his tactics to 4-3-3.
Stekelenburg
VdW – Heitinga – Douglas – Pieters
Fer – Strootman
Sneijder
Robben – L. De Jong – Wijnaldum
GK: Krul, Vorm
DF: Bruma, De Vrij, v.Aanholt
MF: Van der Vaart, Afellay, Schaars, De Jong
FW: Huntelaar, v.Persie, Elia
These new replacements should be braught in and playing in the upcoming friendlies so they can gel together before the Euro Cup next summer.
Mohamed hold your horsses . A big piece on Jopie and Lou tomorrow…
Posted from Australia
Ok, I posted it today!
Posted from Australia
You can’t judge the dutch on a friendly when we were missing at least three, maybe four players. I do agree that BVM should have been playing some younger players to give them experience.
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Tiju i am agree that BVM should think in Orange future.
For my the goal is not EC 2012, is WC 2014.
For me the team should be integrated by 50% veterans aprox and 50% future, like this: (firts the beginners /benched)
ºº is for the young players. Looks like for each veterans there is a young player ºº
Clasic Ductsh 4-3-3 with libero:
Robben/Eliaºº–Hunter/V Wolfsvinkelºº–Persie/L.Jongºº
–Sneijder/Affelayºº–NdJong/Schaar–VdV/Wijnaldumºº
Pietersºº/Anholdºº-Douglasºº/Bommel–Strootmanºº/Heitinga—VdWºº/Kuyt
And I agree, players like Naher, Olah John, Castaignos, Bruma, etc should have play more in friendlies to gain experience in international levels.
Some people said here that Brahdfiel is better player than V. Anhoold rigth now, and thats true, but thats not the point, at leats for a friendly.
The point is. Who will be better player in 2012 or 2014?? Van Anhold or Brahfield?
The same with Boularous….
I thin players its a huge BMV miskate that Wijnaldum onlye played like 10 minutes the last 4 games, because BMV prefer give Kuyt more time.
Agree that BvM should give chance fresh blood, like Low do it in Germany…. i am not sayind that he has to try 20 new players (like Van Basten), but at least a few of them, the most promising ones (Naher, Van Anholt, Bruma, Wolsfwinkel, Castaignos, etc)