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Oranje beats Norway 0-1, but…

October 15th, 2008 | By: Jan | 20 Comments »

Mark hoped to score his second here…

I’d like to start with the conclusions this time around (having seen the game, yeah!!).

1. If you play like this and you win, you’ve done well. You take the three points, Oranje leads the group and the future is bright. Well done Bert!

2. If you play like this and you concede a late equalizer or worse, you’ve failed and you deserve to be mocked until March!

Oranje played “patient”, “solid”, “controlled the game”, “had most possession” and more of that coach-speak, but I found we played too arrogant, too slow-paced, lacked courage and we were lucky that the Norwegians were so…well…unlucky.

Of course Van Marwijk expected Norway to start more ferocious. He instructed his boys to be cautious and well, they were. Keeping possession, taking the pace out, but whenever you do have the chance to hit, you have to take it! In these games, you only get two or three opportunities.

Norway disappointed in the first half, for sure, but in those cases, Oranje should step up to the plate and put the game away.

In my view, Oranje’s tactics should have changed during the game. Norway started with 1,5 striker against four defenders of Holland and two holding midfielders who stayed back all the time in the first half. Van der Vaart seemed to be ignored and Huntelaar…well…this was not a game for the Hunter.

I know I’m not a big Hunter fan and all, but he couldn’t do anything right. Why place a static goal-hunter between the two tallest (and smartest, but more on that later) central defenders in Europe?

A player like Van Persie or Van der Vaart deep in central position would have been ideal. I also felt Van Bommel should have pushed up. As he did in the second half. If you have 7 players at the back, you basically invite the other team in (maybe Van Marwijk wanted that of course) and you have to handle Carew where he’s the most dangerous. Carew impressed me again, by the way…

With Van Bommel pushing forward and Vaart/Persie centrally you can pass and move yourself into the box or around the box and those twin towers at the back would be clueless…

But anyway…

I’m not negative. I enjoyed the win. But against a better opponent, we would have been taken to the cleaners.

Afellay tried hard but had a lot of possession-losses. Van der Vaart was almost invisible. Babel had his moments. Gio seemed a bit too taciturn. Mathijsen, Ooijer and Marcellis played a faultless game. De Zeeuw was mediocre and Van Bommel played a good second half.

But the man for me, was Dirk Kuyt. Working hard, great touches, good turns and a wonderful shot on the cross bar. Van Persie and Sneijder didn’t play long enough to really pass judgment, although Van Persie definitely looked the business. So, I don’t want to read anymore criticism on Dirk, understood ?

All in all, a good result but a bit disappointing performance. As if they played with the handbrake on. And Norway didn’t deserve that arrogance. I even felt they deserved the equalizer…

Because they may lack skills, they have the heart! And as I wrote earlier on, the Norway defense is excellent in positioning! Very impressive. And then there’s that Carew. Can you imagine his career if he was English, or French, or German?

At the Oranje press conference, Van Marwijk admitted the team hadn’t played well. “Listen, in the first half we played under par. We expected Norway to put more pressure on and they didn’t. We didn’t feel we should take the game to them, why would we? It’s about the result for now. We have a great position now and that’s what counts. The team managers of Spain and Italy won’t be fielding questions about how their teams played. It’s about the result. But, again, I wasn’t too impressed either but I’m very satisfied with this result.”

On why he didn’t start Van Persie and/or Sneijder: “We did well against Iceland with the team we played. There was no real need to change the team. Sneijder and Van Persie are just coming back, so why risk a worse injury if it’s not necessary. A hamstring (Van Persie) is a strange injury. When you think it’s gone, it can snap back just like that. I didn’t think it was responsible to start them.”

Tags: Afellay, Bommel, Carew, Kuyt, Marwijk, Nederland, Norway, Oranje, Sar, World Cup 2010

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Comments

By Caleb | October 15th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

“but I found we played too arrogant, too slow-paced, lacked courage and we were lucky that the Norwegians were so…well…unlucky.”

I felt the same way… definitely too slow-paced and we didn’t have the courage to try taking chances – all part of playing it safe and keeping possession I guess, but we didn’t really keep the possession for large parts of the game. We were lucky that Norway was unlucky.

Also, we didn’t use the wings near enough. Scotland was able to use the wings very well and create lots of chances, but we barely used the wings at all… we could have used Robben and an uninjured Babel (that was a very cynical challenge by Pedersan by the way…).

I also agree that Huntelaar looked out of it and Carew looked very impressive. Bommel’s goal was very nice – he had a practice shot last game, and scored when it counted in this game.

Other than that it was a very forgettable game, but at least we got the result which is the important thing at this stage.

By mario | October 15th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

I don´t think it was a forgetabble game. The Dutch National team has played wonderful games in the past and hasn´t won like in 1974, 1978, 1998 and 2000…well maybe more than in those tournaments.

Football today is about winning and a qualification process is just to get the results and then in the tournament you have to show your best.

But in the last years we have always had trouble to get to the tournament and now we have 3 games and we have won twice away. We are in a great position and if Norway deserved more I don´t care. In 2000 vs. Italy we deserved to win 5-0 and we just didn´t score and had an awful day with the penalties. Oranje has everything to grab the qualification very early and van Marwijk so far is doing great because when Norway and Scotland come to Holland they will more difficulties because those kind of teams play under par when they leave their stadiums.

We will be in WC 2010 for sure!

By Caleb | October 15th, 2008 at 10:51 pm

By the way, if anyone still wants to watch the game, here’s some links where you can download it from:

1st Half:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/apqxde

2nd Half:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/06364c

By andrew locke | October 15th, 2008 at 11:24 pm

I guess I’ve come to the view that qualification games are a different animal than the tournament. The players come together at the last minute; there are always last minute fitness decisions; there is travel involved; the healthy players are fatigued; for a number of players, going from last season, to the Euros, to training for and starting the new season, they’ve been playing for 15 months stright, with maybe a couple of weeks off; plus this team is playing without Robben, Sneijder, Van Persie, RVN, De Jong, Boula…you just have to qualify, however you can, and build the beautiful, cohesive team in the 4 week camp before the tourney.

The Oranje never looked good during qualifications for the Euros, butthey they were a different team in Switzerland (not sure what happened when they crossed the border to Austria, though). I’m just happy they get the points: consider how the fans of Portugal,France and Greece feel right now.

Posted from United States

By finnster01 | October 15th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

Off topic. The Sun just ran a story today ranking the all time top foreign strikers in the Prem. Henry won by a whisker over Cantona primarily due to the fact he is the foreigner who has scored the most goals in the Prem. Anyway here is the top 10. Notice the prominent Dutch prescence:

1. Thierry Henry

2. Eric Cantona

3. Ruud Van Nistelrooy

4. Dennis Bergkamp

5. Gianfranco Zola

6. Fernando Torres

7. Jürgen Klinsmann

8. Ole Gunnar Solskjær

9. Didier Drogba

10. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink.

By Miguel Rosado | October 15th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

Holland is getting the results, in other qualifications we had some problems and we are starting under Van Maarwijk and also we had some injured players.

By Miguel Rosado | October 15th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

But we do need courage and be a little nasty.

I watched Germany’s game vs Russia, Russia played very well but the germans didn’t let them play easy. I am happy Van Bommel is back because he is the type of player who doesn’t let opposition free and is hard on them.

By Van Basten | October 16th, 2008 at 1:16 am

Other than the fact that Van Nilsteroy is not in the team, and that Van Bommel has been added to the squad, there is no real change in our Oranje squad. I mean, I thought after the Euro, there was going to be a radical change. We should not have the mindset of just qualifying for the World Cup, we should completely rebuild the squad, and make it more robust so that there is no way we can be outplayed, and if it comes to winning a game in the trenches that we will be victorious in the end.
I am 100% certain we will make it to the World Cup, but I am skeptical as to whether our Oranje can win the 2010 World Cup with this current squad, the same that played during the during, and the same tactics.
Are we currently a 2010 World Cup Champion caliber team is to me the million dollars question!

By tiju | October 16th, 2008 at 2:32 am

@vanbasten
We wont win the WC10 with current diffenders that is our main problem
they are all fearfull personals that is their major problem apart from that selfconfidence,brilliance,fighting spirit ,focus etc,our diffenders lack all the characters.
we should rebuil our diffence with new diffenders
like marcelis,calvin,peiters,luirink,ron vlaar,zuiverloon,brafeild.our under 23 diffenders was superb against the dribling masters messy and requlme in olympics.so i woul say stick on that.

Posted from India

By tiju | October 16th, 2008 at 2:33 am

@mr
agreed on courage only vanbommel is the hope

Posted from India

By Carlos | October 16th, 2008 at 5:14 am

I think Caleb summed it up very well in one word “forgettable”

Posted from Singapore

By Jan | October 16th, 2008 at 5:42 am

Well, how many qualication games do you remember? Oranje must have played 40 qualification games in the last 30 years (probably more) and I remember the ones we lost dramatically (vs Belgium, France, Portugal, Ireland) and a couple we won (the Robbie de Wit game for instance).

Other than that, it’s like wining and dining the mrs before you get…you know? I don’t remember what wine I ordered …

It’s a mean to an ends. Players spend 5 days together in training camp. Opponents mostly don’t want to play football. The actual fun of following Oranje is in the warm up before a tournament. The excitement. The expectations. Then we glow in the praise Oranje receives for great games or we flock ourselves if we had one of those “would have/could have” abominations of matches… Ending in long debates how we got whipped this time around .

That’s the life of an Oranje supporter, I suppose…

“Next tournament! We will win the next tournament for sure. We’ll show the world…”

Does this ring a bell?

By Bart | October 16th, 2008 at 7:30 am

I just had to smile after that last comment I’ve said the same thing to my half-Italian friend for the last 4 or 5 years.

Posted from Canada

By Caleb | October 16th, 2008 at 8:34 am

“I don’t remember what wine I ordered …”

Haha! Great comparison!

Posted from Canada

By Alex | October 16th, 2008 at 10:27 am

Defence was a bit shaky, just as during the EC, because against Italy and France we had a lot of luck in front of our own goal, at the EC, their strikers , luckily, weren’t really sharp enough.
I thought Marcellis was pretty solid again, still needs to learn a bit in positioning, marking and high balls, but that will come as he gains experience, but our central defence did look very chaotic, they marked from too far away, very cautious, they gave the Norwegian attackers lots of space, Norwegians won most of the duels around our box, won most balls coming out of our box, poor forward defending, very wild kicks, with balls played into the opponents feet, i thought the defending on field lacked organisation, too bad Boulahrouz, Bouma and Heitinga are injured because they’re much sharper defenders than Ooijer-Mathijsen, but also Gio(I think he isn’t defending very convincingly, maybe cause he doesn’t play leftback for his club anymore), we were lucky to have big Ed back in goal these games. I’d like to see Marcellis stay with the selection from now on
keep De Cler, Gio and Mathijsen in for now, drop Kromkamp once and for all, bring in Braafheid, together with Marcellis most convincing dutch defender around, cause Loovens, Kruiswijk barely get to play right now, Zuiverloon and Donk should prove themselves for a longer period of time on PL level first, but i have to say after Marcellis and Braafheid most promising defenders at the moment, Luirink and Vlaar are injured or are just coming back from injurie, and have to prove they earn it, V.d.Wiel and Pieters not ready yet, as are talents like Koenders, Kum, Drenthe, Emanuelson, Janmaat, Jong-a-pin, they are all still too inconsistant or not convincing enough. I’d say this is a better defensive selection then we have right now:
Marcellis, Heitinga, Boulahrouz, Bouma, Mathijsen, De Cler, Gio, Braafheid
and Michel Vorm can stay as second goalie after Stekelenburg, third keeper Timmer or Boschker or something like that, maybe Velthuizen or Vermeer already. But that’s just a possibility.

Posted from Netherlands

By lowiesje | October 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

Considering half of the team is injured, the result pleases me, but it is appalling the form, or level, Huntelaar is in; not worthy to play in Oranje. He’s crap, for now. Did everything wrong what he should have done. He lost my confidence. Don’t want to see him in oranje in this shape. If he’s the best young main-striker we have, right now, we’re doomed…
I’m not worried about our young defenders, there are many of them, but only a few can make it to Oranje, Zuiverloon, obviously, Donk perhaps, their time will come and if their constistent enough van Marwijk can’t skip them no longer. I’d say, be patient.

Posted from Netherlands

By Felipe | October 16th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

I agree with Jan (and I also watched the game… ALIVE! YES!).

Oranje needs urgently to change its tactics. Against teams who play hard on defense and push upfront their markers, the team is not being able to play a game full of fluidity and very strong in the counter-attack as the players like and know. Just similar to a Portuguese-speaking South American country… but that’s serious: Holland needs to find a way to repeat those marvellous Euro scores against sides stronger in defense.

For me, Van Bommel was the man yesterday. MvB is that kind of player you got to bear. He’s not the guy one’s father would want as a son-in-law to its daughter (unless the father is called Bert van Marwijk… LOL!), his temper is very bad, but he knows a thing or two about being a midfielder. De Zeeuw is useful to help the defense, but not that much when the subject is playmaking. Mark can help VdV on it.

By Michel-Olivier | October 16th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

we will win the WC in 2010. even if we have bad defenders we will beat every team by scoring more, like hockey.

Posted from United States

By Jan | October 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

It’s clear to me that Oranje expected a fierce Norway, the expected a storm. When Norway didn’t start like that, Oranje was smart enough to play the pace down and let the ball do the running. We weren’t the ones needing a win badly. Norway played at home, backs to the wall, another finals for them. And they decided to allow Oranje have the ball.

I think it was smart of Bommel, Zeeuw and the others to take it slow.

Tactically, I must say Van Marwijk played it smart.

But, whenever we had opportunities to move upfront, we clearly didn’t do well. Huntelaar was useless, Afellay to wrapped up in his C Ronaldo imitation, Kuyt wasn’t supported by Marcellis or De Zeeuw/Bommel and van der Vaart was marked too well and didn’t have enough lightfooted players around him. In particular Bommel and Zeeuw didn’t move up in the first half. I can understand the tactics behind it, but when you have ball possession, you should move up the pitch and go for goal.

One reasonable opportunity at the end of the first half (and that wide shot by Kuyt) for Afellay is a bit poor.

Second half we had some good chances on breaks but we didn’t play it well: Van Persie’s heavy touch on Afellay for instance…

It was lovely to see Kuyt take that throw in ball in one go to ramsack the cross bar

Really, sometimes balls that hit the bar are cooler than the ones that go in….

By ferenc | October 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

i’m happy with the result and don’t care about the bad performance. before the game i was sure that it wouldn’t be sexy football because norway is not the team for it and against this kind of opponents we have to battle and wrestle hard. in the past my team – oranje,ajax,barca – had so many beautiful game but at the end they didn’t get too often the result i expected. at this preliminary stage teams don’t play good football because the result is the most important. now we have three victories and are in a very good position despite all the injured players. if next time we win against scotland we’ll be at the wprld championship and van marwijk will have plenty of time to experiment formations,new players etc.

Posted from Hungary