Interview: Bert of Orange – Part 2.

September 27th, 2011 | by: Jan | Comments(51)

Part 2 of the Bert Interview, walking through the different positions with him.

In 2008, you started with Heitinga as right back but Greg van der Wiel took that spot. Heitinga is now a center back but at Everton he’s a holding midfielder. Is that tough for a coach?

“It’s tougher for him. I believe players get better as a result of these switches but most players don’t like it. As holding mid, Johnny needs to work in bigger spaces, with totally different decisions to make. You need to act even quicker in that role. John is highly experienced and can make those switches. At the moment, he doesn’t play a lot. That can be a plus or a minus. Sometimes players take their baggage with them in a bad way, others are highly motivated to prove their coach wrong. Johnny is mentally very strong.”

I suppose Van der Wiel’s breakthrough was celebrated, for that spot?

“Yeah, when I signed I knew that spot would be a difficult one to fill. Van Basten used many different players there as he was forced to. Heitinga, Ooijer, Boulah, Nigel de Jong even… Khalid started to play more as a right back in Germany too and Van der Wiel had this tremendous breakthrough at Ajax. These days, full backs are half wingers. Look at Clichy, Dani Alves, Sergio Ramos, Marcello, Evra… Players with speed, with a dribble and a trick and a great cross in. Greg is also a good goal scorer. I never saw his score ugly goals. He had a very tough year though, Van der Wiel. Mentally and physically. Ajax is demanding and the World Cup was not a holiday trip either. Greg needs to manage that, but I believe he knows how to. He’s become more and more serious.”

Van der Wiel decided to stay at Ajax. Can he still learn there?

“I believe so. Ajax plays with Sulejmani as right winger, who drifts inwards when he can, allowing Van der Wiel to develop his attacking side. I look at who’s the coach too and I know that you will never stop learning when working with Frank de Boer. I learned from Frank de Boer and he’s a bit like Guardiola and Van Gaal. Constantly on top of things. As a national team manager, you can’t work like that, but Frank can. And Greg’s move will come, I’m sure. He will only be stronger when he goes.”

When you were appointed as team manager, Mark van Bommel immediately made his return. Did you consider making him your skipper right away?

“Oh God no…. That would be horrific management. Mark wasn’t part of the squad for a while and he needed to find his way in the hierarchy. The worst thing I could do was to give him the arm band. By the way, Gio was my first choice anyway. No doubt in my mind. Van Bronckhorst can read games very well and acted as a role model always… On and off the pitch. I did think Mark deserved a starting position, to be honest. I do believe that his qualities warranted that. I have a lot of faith in him and never let me down.”

Van Bommel and De Jong make a good duo. In which way has your relationship with Nigel changed, since you decided to ignore him for a bit after his series of mishaps?

“From my end, nothing has changed. I still support the decision I took. It’s only logical that Nigel was disappointed. I would have had a similar attitude as Nigel. But we work together very well. I may have dropped a bit in his list of xmas-cards but I never noticed it. We all work well together as colleagues. And I have always said that what Nigel brings to the team is vital! He brings balance and grit. We have many beautiful artists and we needed a bit more muscle. Nigel sometimes goes to far, but you have to if you want to know where the boundaries are.”

Some people prefer Rafael van der Vaart in that role.

“Sure, I get that. You can act much quicker. Raf knows where to play the through pass before he has the ball, Nigel will always first look around and check the defensive positions. What is sad for Nigel and his type of players, is that whenever Raf does something tremendous for the team, you know it. It’s a goal or a cross or through pass. Whenever Nigel protects us from something, you don’t really see it. It’s the pass he doesn’t give. It’s the turn, back to Joris or Mark. People will go “Come on Nigel, deep….” but he might have seen a situation that would bring us in trouble. They’re the reluctant heroes. Jaap Stam, Wim Jansen, Philip Cocu, Nigel de Jong, Arthur Numan, Joris Mathijsen…. Rafael was a high risk player and that has changed. When he played at Ajax and HSV he was all artistry. Now, through Madrid and now the EPL he has become pretty well balanced. Nigel is more the risk-averse player. And with Strootman and Theo Janssen we have two players that sit a little in between. With all these options we can vary tremendously, we have Afellay for the holding spot too and Leroy Fer is coming through while Schaars is impressive in Portugal.”

Poor Ibi….

“Oh yes…. It’s horrific. I sometimes feel like a mum…. I get a text or a call and you do think “shit, I hope it’s not bad news…”. You look at the number….hmmm….Spain…. You know. It’s so sad for him. He’s never ever had a big injury and now two in a row. I haven’t spoken to him or his club yet, but I heard it was a silly turn he made and he stepped on something and snap… We will most definitely be thinking of Ibi a lot!”

Back to the midfield…. Will you make the decision on the strength of the opponent? Whether you play De Jong or Van der Vaart?

“Well, no. It’s more complicated. It’s our form. It’s the importance of the match. It’s the way other players develop. If I can’t play Van der Wiel, there is a chance I have less of an outlet on the right. It’s the whole picture. We tend to work on the basis of our strength. 1) we want to win all our games, 2) we want to win in style.
That will determine who we pick.”

Recently, Strootman got the call instead of Theo Janssen. Theo wasn’t too happy. How you do make those decisions?

“We look at everything. I look at how they play at their club. I speak to their coaches. I look at how they train. I look at what’s going on off the pitch. We do this every week. Week in week out. Before the World Cup we started making our squad three months before the deadline and we had heated debates every week.
I have to say: I protect our squad a lot, I don’t want this to be travel-through house. We won’t say: oh look, Strootman is doing well, let’s drop Janssen. Strootman is a pretty unique case as he add something unique to the team. I believe he demonstrated that on our Brazil trip too. Recently, Theo was called back into the preliminary squad, that says enough. But Theo has some modifications he had to make with his move from Twente to Ajax. At Twente he was the playmaker, at Ajax he is one of the team. That is quite a big move. Not in actual football, but in psychology.”

You started with Robin van Persie as right winger, Robben as left winger and Huntelaar as central striker. Now Van Persie is the striker, Robben plays on the right and Ibi has developed well on that left spot.

“I could see that Ibi would get playing time on the left wing, as Villa’s understudy. He developed wonderfully. As a team manager you are dependent on the development of players. Wenger uses Robin as center striker… ok… Arsenal is not Oranje of course, but Robin enjoyed that spot, while Robben started to really develop well on the right wing… It’s all those dynamics. We have so many great players and only eleven spots.”

Is Dirk Kuyt the first name that you fill in on the sheet?

“That’s an exaggeration but Dirk does hold tremendous value for our team. He can play so many different roles within one match. He can cover for the right back, he can support midfield, he can cross and pass and he score a goal. He is extremely coachable too. Tell Dirk something and he will do it. For as long as the game goes. He won’t forget or be distracted. A top professional. Dirk motivates his players and is a great role model. He never lets you down.”

So, what are the decisions around the center striker spot?

“I do what is best for the team. Van Persie can play on all four offensive spots. He can make the play, be the winger, be the goal scorer. Whether he has his back of the face to the goal, doesn’t matter. He also creates a lot of space and movement. Huntelaar is the best striker in the world in the box. He’s lethal there. One half chance, one goal. We have many options. Luuk de Jong is a striker in the Huntelaar mould. For the wings we have Robben who can play on both wings, but prefers the right. Elia prefers the left, but can play on the right too. Ibi can play on the left wing, Wijnaldum can play on the right wing. In a different set up, Rafael van der Vaart and Dirk Kuyt can play on the wings as well.”

As you said, you have to make choices and you will have dissatisfied players. Does it help that you were quite a grumpy player yourself?

“Probably. I wasn’t easy for a coach. I do get it when players let their emotions go. Fine. But we all know where the boundaries are. Whenever a player goes beyond it, he will have to face me. I do not except bullshit in the squad. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!”

When you started, Sneijder was in a tough spot in Madrid and Rafael van der Vaart wad your number 10. Sneijder has since developed into world class. Did you have to work hard with Wesley?

“Working hard is not the right term. At Inter, they expected different things from him. Under Mourinho, Wes had to find the right position to allow him – once Inter gained possession – to find the runner immediately. He could have three or four passes in 90 minutes and be man of the match. In Oranje, it doesn’t work like that. I need Sneijder to be part of the midfield. To pressure, to combine, to take over positions, etc. I know that every player actually enjoys that Oranje game much more, but Wes had to make that shift. Sneijder has much more ball contacts in Oranje and at the World Cup we could all see how tremendously important he can be. With Sneijder it’s like…we all know how good they are right, but to make them also play in service of the team makes a lad like Wesley world class. Look at the other players at his level: Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Zidane, Del Pierro, Rooney…. All sensational individual players but all focused on the team performance.”

Most players in Oranje work abroad, in different systems. How hard is it to get them all back to the Dutch Way?

“Not that hard. For starters, most if not all have developed playing like this in the youth. It’s the Dutch School and we do this for a reason. Players like Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Bommel, Huntelaar….they love being back in that regime. And they can invest a lot of themselves in that game. I believe they enjoy working with us at Oranje and that – for me – is the real success factor. If the lads enjoy working with me, I’d consider staying. If not, I’m out of here.”

How hard was it for you to motivate yourself after the World Cup?

“Good question. First time anyone asks this, but it’s true. I really had difficulty. We were so close. And we used so much power and dynamics to motivate ourselves…. We talked about our mission and all that. I can’t go back now to the players and say “Ok guys. Guess what? Now we have another mission!”. So I didn’t.”

You did what exactly?

“I told them about my lack of motivation. I told them. On the first day after the World Cup when we got back to prepare for the Euro 2012, I said: “I don’t have the magic words. I struggle to find the level we had in the run up to the World Cup. But I will work my arse off to get it back. I want you guys to do the same. If you think I don’t have it anymore, let me know and I walk. If I think you don’t have it, I will kick you in the nuts.” Well, not literally. But that’s how it went. No talk. Just work. Sweat. Practice. Being on top of it. And it didn’t take long or we were all enjoying ourselves.”

Van Persie actually spoke about how he’d like you to stay on until World Cup 2014! What about that?

“That is what you do it for. If the players give these signals, I will do whatever I can for them. Sure. I’m sensitive for those things. And I also believe we haven’t reached our peak yet. And we have a European title to win and a World Cup to win. Pretty exciting. ”

When will you talk to the KNVB about your contract?

“Soon. All options are open. I’d love to work in Spain or England one day with a good club, but working with Oranje is not a bad job, is it? We’ll see.”