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Comfort zone for Oranje

October 17th, 2008 | By: Jan | 19 Comments »

When I watched the Norway - Holland game I realized we could lose and I also realized it may even be a good thing to lose. In the first place, we’d get some excitement back in this group and secondly, I always feel Oranje needs pressure to deliver. When all’s going our way, we tend to become complacent (EC2008 anyone?).

It will be Bert van Marwijk’s toughest task to keep everybody sharp, not to let players like Mathijsen, Ooijer, Babel, De Zeeuw, De Jong and Huntelaar think they’re actually very very good. Because they can be, but only if they give it their 100%.

The www.ad.nl looked back at the mood after the game:

Mark van Bommel raises his eyebrows… With what feeling will he return to Munich? “At the moment I’m just glad we won. I’m not sure how things will be in Munich. I’ll have to wait and see.”

Van Bommel is uncertain about his future at Bayern. As far as he is concerned, he’d love to play a couple of weeks more with Oranje.

“But, most lads will have that. When you win and you feel right, there’s nothing cooler than defending the colors of your country. And scoring that goal is special, but it’s great for the whole team that we won, who ever scores the goal.”

Still, that goal will give him confidence in his next encounter with Klinsmann. “My personal interests are less important. It’s important that we made a big step towards the WC, that’s what this is about.”

Most internationals will return to their clubs with confidence. No other land in Europe is so relaxed in their campaign as Holland now. Three wins in a row and sloppy rivals. The next five months, Oranje is just a nice side-dish. In the months that come, club football will be the main thing.

Robin van Persie: “Yeah, that is nice. We are doing well, you can say what you want, but three wins in a row is a great result. We had two away games, so…”

A private jet was waiting for Van Persie, Babel, Ooijer, Kuyt and van der Sar, to take them back to England, from Norway. They’d won a day for their prep for the busy competition this weekend.

In November this year Oranje will practice against Sweden and in February Van Marwijk hopes to settle on a friendly against Tunesia. These games are meant to keep the rhythm, but there is hardly any pressure on Oranje for the next months.

Team manager Van Marwijk can rest his most taxed players and maybe experiment a bit. There is a bit to do, despite the three wins. Oranje played sloppy against Norway. Van Persie: “These type of games are tough, though. For any nation. I really think we did great.”

Van Bommel though the play was ok until Oranje reached the 20 meter line in front of the Norwegian goal. “It wasn’t good beyond that, but we never really got into trouble.”

The former PSV midfielder was happy with his first international games after his return. “After the game someone said to me: it’s like you were never away… I liked that. It’s fantastic to be back, really great. The training level, the vibe in the group…. I truly enjoy that.”

Van Bommel played more than decent, with an assist on Van der Vaart against Macedonia and a goal against Norway.

“That is very cool, but not the most important. My primary task with Demy in this case, is to keep the balance on midfield. We need to make sure the boys upfront can make the difference. That is going ok for now. And it gives me more satisfaction than that goal.”

Robin van Persie wasn’t surprised he didn’t start after his hamstring injury. “I discussed it with the coach. We both didn’t think we should be taking the risk.”

Van Marwijk uses Van Persie on the right wing, for now. “That’s fine,” says the Gunner. “I play where the coach needs me. It’s hard enough with all those great players. Everyone wants to play for his country. Don’t think I will make trouble at Oranje to play on a certain spot.”

Against Everton Robin can play centrally again for his club Arsenal.

Tags: Arsenal, Bommel, Holland, Kuyt, Marwijk, Munich, Oranje, Persie, Sneijder, Vaart, World Cup 2010

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Comments

By ghost of steve finnan | October 17th, 2008 at 7:22 am

Since 2010 is locked up, why not try, just try that’s all, something like this to maximize the talent. Its just that Mathijsen and Ooijer have to be replaced if possible, but maybe its not possible. Just a try, I say.

Steks

Marcellis Heitinga V Bommel Gio

VDV De Jong

RVP Sneijder Robben

KJH

Posted from United States

By Caleb | October 17th, 2008 at 9:46 am

@Ghost - looks pretty good, but I have two concerns about that line up:
1) There aren’t any tall or strong defenders (V Bommel doesn’t really count because he’s not really a defender). Against a team like Norway I think we’d have a lot of trouble winning headers in the back.
2) I don’t think VDV is a good option in defensive midfield…

Not sure what the best solution would be in defense… the options are pretty limited. Also for defensive midfielder, who would be best to move back there? Or maybe we should only play with one defensive midfielder (De Jong), move VDV up a line, and then move RVP up a line, so we get a 4-1-3-2 formation?

Steks

Marcellis Heitinga V Bommel Gio

De Jong

VDV Sneijder Robben

RVP KJH

Posted from Canada

By Michel-Olivier | October 17th, 2008 at 10:12 am

————–Steks————-
kannibaal-marcellis-mathijsen-urby
——-son in law—-dejong——-
wijnaldinho—–VDV——sneijder
———ruud “horsey face”——–

Posted from United States

By Alex | October 17th, 2008 at 10:57 am

think it’s best to try several line-ups in defence if possible, i’d like to see how this defence would do
Marcellis-Boulahrouz-Heitinga-Bouma

Cause Gio isn’t that convincing at left-back, at least Bouma is more comfortable in defending, especially in one-on-one situations.
yeah yeah, three right-footed defenders, but other teams also play with 2 right footed central defenders, and Boulahrouz-Heitinga might not be very tall but it’s the best central duo we have at the moment, and Ooijer-Mathijsen can’t last another tournament, the MADNESS HAS to END. Marcellis can replace either one in center when they’re injured or something like that.
Marcellis, Heitinga, Boulahrouz, Bouma, De Cler, Gio, Ooijer and Mathijsen are the best we have at this moment, and its not as bad as we think, but Ooijer can’t manage if the pace gets too high, Mathijsen is really only good enough for the bench, Gio, i explained already, and De Cler is good enough as a replacement but not the man we need on leftback in the WC, and Kromkamp can’t even handle CL level, i don’t trust him, at AZ he played in a system that fit his style and masked his pretty big flaws.
other older players like Kevin Hofland, Rob wielaert, Michael Dingsdag, Serginho Greene and Theo Lucius can’t impress me enough to be in oranje.

But it’s not clear how our other defending talents will develop, i think Edson Braafheid is a pretty decent defender for now, he is good enough to join oranje pretty soon, but after him and Marcellis who already made his international debute i think whe only have a few players who could make it before 2010.

I think at the moment our most promising defenders after Marcellis and Braafheid are Donk and Zuiverloon, and if Donk(still only 22) can finally live up to his full potential, he’d be a welcome reinforcement with his posture.

I believe I mentioned this earlier in a previous message, but after them Ron Vlaar and Gijs Luirink used to do pretty good, but vlaar still injured and Luirink still recovering. They are both tall and athletic and might still prove to be good enough for oranje. Also Arnold Kruiswijk and Glen Loovens could be of use, but i don’t expect that much further development with them.
And then whe have the noticable talents that either haven’t really performed concistent or good enough to make it, or haven’t really been able to fulfill their promise yet, so I’m thinking about Emanuelson(LWB), Drenthe(LWB), Pieters(LB/CB), Janmaat(RB), Tiendalli(RWB), Koenders(CB), V.d.Wiel(CB/RB), Jong-a-pin(LB/CB), Kum(CB) or Luijckx(CDM). They all still have the possibility of improving as defenders. After all of them , whe still have the not really known talents like Patrick V.Aanholt, Jeffrey Bruma, Daley Blind, Norichio Nieveld and Jordy Buijs, but they all still have to really break through.

But if the older mediocre players like for example Ooijer and De Cler would be replaced, I won’t be worried about our defence in 2010, it can only get better.

Posted from Netherlands

By mario | October 17th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

guys, how can you say Boulahrouz is the best option in the centre?. For me he is the worst Oranje player I have seen in my whole life. I mean, he failed at Chelsea, he failed at Sevilla and in WC 2006 he played awful and in 2008 he never was really challenged because he didn´t have to play vs. real wingers but against Russia he looked pretty stupid, he doesn´t know how to control his toughness and doesn´t have technique. For sure Ooijer and Mathijsen are much better than him but I´d rather play with Heitinga as a libero and Mathijsen as stopper. There have been many critics for Mathijsen and I agree he is not bright but he commits very few mistakes, he scores sometimes and is good in the air. I mean…guys, I think we are all saying he is not good and all that because we are comparing him to Frank de Boer who was the last one hero in that position but let´s not make that mistake: Mathijsen will never be a Frank de Boer and it is gonna be very tough to find someone like him in the near future so van Marwijk will have to cope with Mathijsen and as far as I know he is a regular in Hamburg and in Germany they would love to have one defender like him in the stopper position.

By PEP | October 17th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

POrtugal tied ALbania at home.

Posted from Canada

By finnster01 | October 17th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Since I don’t get to watch Eresdivisie, I am at a bit of a disadvantage about future talent, but what I will say is what I have seen of Donk and Zuiverloon has been rather impressive. They are both regular starters, hence gets regular Premier league matching aginst the big boys. I have watched them in a couple of games this season, and they have looked very decent. The fact that they get regular matching at top level will help their development in a big way.

If I were Bert, I’d follow those two closely (which I am sure he does anyway).

By ghost of steve finnan | October 17th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

No Urby on Defense! Please. I like Donk, too from what I’ve seen of him on the EPL, he’s been much improved from last year at AZ. Maybe KJH also needs a step up to get him back into focus again b/c he looks awful right now.

Posted from United States

By Igor | October 17th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

I really like Caleb’s line-up, although I would play Kuijt instead of Robben keep the team balanced and have Robben as a super sub. or alternatively if KJH doesn’t step it up soon, use our current formation and play van Persie as striker and start Robben, vdv and Kuijt as offensive mids and de jong and sneijder as defensive mids.

also, if Bouma keeps playing like he did last season, I would like to see him get another chance to start a few games.

Posted from Canada

By Angela | October 17th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

I can’t tell you how happy I was to see Mark score. I hope this will get my Captain back on the pitch where he belongs and Klinsmann will get his head out of his a..

Posted from United States

By Samuel Knight (Oudegeest) | October 17th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Anyone else think that Arsenal should buy Van Bommel?

An experienced, aggresive mid-fielder to play with / backup Fabregas?

Nice two year contract? Likes to run…

Anyway..

Posted from United States

By Jan | October 17th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

Angela, thanks for dropping in. Please explain to us the Bommel situation at Bayern. Conspiracy theorists think Klinsi talked to him old mate Marco van Basten on Bommel….

I like Caleb’s line up too! It’s just that Vaart should play closer to the opponent’s box. I’d rather see Sneijder holding midfielder, able to push up. I also like to see V Persie as striker instead of Hunter.

With all that creative talent, we need tough defenders (3!) to mark the opponent and with De Jong/Bommel centrally in holding position, this should do the job… Is what I think.

If we play with wide forwards, the ledtbacks don’t need to be so offensive and skilled and you could use “defending full backs” like Bouma and Marcellis. Then you only need one centrally (Heitinga) and a player like Bommel as free man.

If you play with forwards who like to come to the center of the pitch (Robben, Van Persie) you need attacking full backs like Kromkamp and De Cler (or Kuyt!) who can do the overlap and have a decent cross.

In that case, you need two strong defenders centrally in defense.

It’s that kind of tactical balance you’re looking for…

By Jan | October 17th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

Great idea Sam. If I was Mark I’d love to look back at a career in Holland, Oranje, Spain, Germany and England.

By mario | October 17th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

I think the van Bommel situation is a difficult one but we can comprehend it better puting it this way: Managers in organizations who don´t have the experiencie to handle tough personalities might feel uncorfotable managing these kind of people. I think that van Basten and Klinsman might feel that their leadership can be overshadowed by guys like van Bommel who love to argue and discuss everything. But a real manager knows easily how to handle persons like van Bommel and if not they you might go back and wonder why he never was in trouble with Advocaat, Hiddink and now with van Marwijk. Guys like Klinsman and van Basten have a lot to learn to be top coaches and real managers. There are so many books and lessons about managing and of course you can learn the trade working as one but it takes time. Not every has the talent and although you can get better it isn´t an easy ride.

Posted from Mexico

By Carlos | October 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

I can’t add anything (again !) to the arguments, everyone has good points … Maybe some tips..Watch ManU v WBA tonight and see how Zuiverloon and Donk fare against some real attacking with cry baby down the wing. Hope Donk does well so he can be bought up by a bigger club, however at WBA he doesnt have the talent around him so he has to lead.

Posted from Singapore

By Carlos | October 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Oh…and v Bommel is back in the starting 11 with Bayern ! Angela your phone call to Klinsi must have been peruasive!

Posted from Singapore

By Carlos | October 17th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

peruasive ??? wow persuasive !

Posted from Singapore

By Igor | October 17th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

off topic
@Mario (and other Mexico fans/followers on this blog), I saw mexico-canada live on wednsday, great game and very exciting, however it points to the sad state of football in canada that there were more people cheering for Mexico in the stadium than there were for Canada, pretty poor home crowd really. Mexico has some great talents coming up like giovanni dos santos (although he tended to disappear for periods of the game) and carlos vela (has a great ability to create openings for himself, but still very raw). i thought salcido (PSV player) was great in the build up, it seemed like every ball out of the defence was through him, and ofcourse scoring a goal never hurts. but the player that i was really surprised with was Guardado, i’d never heard of him before the game but i thought he was fearless in taking on defenders and has a good first touch allowing him to receive long balls on the wing even when tightly marked. is he well known in mexico? anyway let me know what you thought of the game if you watched it.

Posted from Canada

By mario | October 17th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

Igor, yes, I watched the game and it was a good game but México is playing very badly with Eriksson. We have a great squad but we are not performing at our best specially when we are visitors. Guardado plays for Deportivo La Coruña and is a key player for México, he is young but has great technique and scores excellent goals with his left foot. I also saw a tough Canadian side and I think you have more potential than Jamaica or el Salvador but it is going to be tough for you guys.

Hopefully we see our countries in next round kicking the GRINGOS out.

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