Another Holland-Germany… A friendly. Yeah, right!

November 13th, 2011 | by: Jan |

haan schumi
Arie Haan vs Tony Schumacher….

Aaaah…finally another Holland-Germany.

The Ajax-Feyenoord ( or Barca – Real, AC Milan – Inter, ManU-ManCity, Arsenal-Spurs) of international football.

It’s been a while. The last one I remember is from 2004! That’s seven years and the hurt makes you feel alive ( thanks Johnny Cash) if we loose and the joy seems to last forever whenever we win….

And yes, it has to do with all those historical things. But mostly it has to do with the fact that they have the number of titles ( World Cups, Euro Cups) that we were supposed to have ( what? We only won one European Championship in 1988?? What’s with that anyway?) and they won those titles with crap football. Well, their 1974 team did have a couple of brilliant players of course but the 1990 team?

Come on!

And it has to do with the Johan Cruyff Farewell game! How dare they??

The thing we hate most, is that Germans don’t mind playing ugly and be arrogant at the same time.

Team manager Oliver Bierhoff took the mic at a pre-game press meeting late yesterday and he said he loved playing Holland. “We like to get under their skin. That always works well.” Asked if Der Mannschaft was now a bit like Oranje, in their playing style, he hastily said: “No no, I hope not. Who wants to finish second all the time, hahaha….”

Hmm… Very funny.

Kaiser Franz Beckenbauer said that in his book Holland is not a favorite for the title next Summer. “No, Germany and Spain are way ahead of the pack. This Germany has the same potential as my World Cup winners in 1990.”

What the F?

Oranje returns to the place where the most famous win over our neighbours was recorded in 1988 (remember: your blogger was there!!). In the semis of the Euro1988 tournament, under Michels, Holland turned a 0-1 around to win 2-1. Some days later, Holland took the title in Munich. This will be the third time we play Germany in the HSVstadium. In 1923 we played them for the first time there and played a 0-0.

bassie kohler
Bassie vs Kohler

Central defender Joris Mathijsen played in Hamburg for five years. He knows the venue well as he does German football. In his eyes, German football might have gone through a metamorphosis, it’s still different to Dutch football. “In Germany, phyisical strength and condition will be top priority.”

Jurgen Klinsmann changed the rugged Mannschaft into a fresh attacking force in 2006. His assistant and successor Joachim Low works on that line. They do get good results with the able youngsters in the team. Third at the World Cup 2006, second at the EC2008, third at the World Cup 2010. Coach Low does have quite an arsenal of exciting young and gifted players, like Sami Khedira, Mesut Özil, Thomas Müller, Thomas Kroos and Mario Götze who play football as if they’re Dutch.

Mathijsen: “Still, their thinking about football is the same as it was. They now happen to have some prospects in the team that can actually play good football and show it too.”

Mathijsen says he worked at Hamburg for a long time as a result of the club’s preference for Dutch coaches. “German coaches will always work from the perspective that you can win games when your team is stronger and fitter. Dutch coaches believe you will win if you see most of the ball.”

Mathijsen’s personal opinion about Germans has changed during his stint at Hamburg. “The feelings from the past have died awat a bit. The generation of my parents will have a different opinion about them, obviously. I’ve been fed with all the old stories, but once you get to know them, you’ll learn that they’re very friendly and open and I have enjoyed certain aspects of their culture. They’re well organised, take life seriously, and go for quality in life.

davids lothar
Davids vs Matthaus

Mathijsen sees the coming game as nothing more than a moment in time. “It’s going to be fun to see who’s the best on the night, but that’s all it is. This is only about prestige. You can’t really make any assertions on this game. We need to be ready, locked and loaded in the Summer of 2012.”

Rafael van der Vaart won’t be in Hamburg and that saddens him. He looked forward to playing in his old HSV home but a slight hamstring issue stops him.

“Holland-Germany is always a tense game, but that is mostly the case for the fans, not so much for the players. Most of us know the Germans well as we played with them in different competitions. But we definitely want to win it. I believe Holland and Germany, with Spain and Italy, are the favorites. The differences are minimal so it will take little details to snatch the title. As always.”

Here are some facts of figures:

* Germany and Holland played 37 times against eachother. Germany won 13 times, Holland won 10 ( should have been 12-11 but I’ll stop moaning). The math heads know that they drew 14 times.

*The last game against Germany was in 2005, a friendly in Rotterdam, with two goals by Arjen Robben. Ballack and Asamoah brought the Germans level.

*Holland and Germany met in 1990 again at the World Cup in Italy. The Germans would win that tournament. They eliminated Holland in the first knock out game ( 2-1). This was infamous spitting incident game with Rijkaard and Voller.

* The last game we played against Germany at a tournament was the EC in 2004 in Portugal. We drew them 1-1 with goals by Frings and Van Nistelrooy.

oranje1988
The 1988 team

The last time Germany beat Holland was in 1996 in Rotterdam. Klinsmann scored the goal in that friendly.

Holland’s last victory was in a 2002 friendly in the Schalke Arena: 1-3. Patrick Kluivert, Hasselbaink and Van Nistelrooy for Holland and Bobic for Germany.

Apart from sentiments, this game is a top game in FIFA ranking terms too, as Holland is number 2 and Germany is number 3.

An interesting fact: both nations only lost a small number of games since 2008 ( Germany 2, Holland 3) and they did so against the same opponents. In three years time, both nations lost against Australia and Spain. Holland later lost against Sweden in October 2011.

Germant scored twice in the last nine international games. If they repeat this against Holland, they will break an old record ( 1953-54).

* This will be Low’s 75th game as head coach for Germany. Only three other German coaches had a longer stint: Sepp Herberger (167), Helmut Schön (139) and Berti Vogts (102).

Miroslav Klose is to play his 112th international. Only Lothar Matthaus played more game, 150 in total. Matthaus made his debut against Oranje ( 1980, EC Italy) and played his last game against Oranje (2000, Rotterdam friendly).

This is also the match between the number 1 and number 2 topscorer of the Bundesliga: Mario Gomez ( Bayern) with 13 against Huntelaar (Schalke) with 10.

The last time Holland wasn’t able to win three games in a row was also under Van Marwijk, in the same months (October/November) in 2009. Three 0-0s against Australia, Italy and Paraguay.

* Five Oranje players are active in the Bundesliga: Ryan Babel (Hoffenheim), Khalid Boulahrouz (VfB Stuttgart), Edson Braafheid (Hoffenheim), Jeffrey Bruma (Hamburger SV) and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04). Three others once played there Rafael van der Vaart, Nigel de Jong and Joris Mathijsen, played for HSV. Mark van Bommel played for Bayern München.

rijkaard_and_voller_90
The Rijkaard – Voller incident in 1990

rijkaardvoller boter
The commercial resolution….

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Comments

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 38 comments.

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By Petrovic | November 14th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

Wow,what terrible defending from Oranje U21! Goalkeeper is crap…
What is it with the younger Dutch teams conceeding goals while controling the game all the time!?

By Petrovic | November 14th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

Aaah,I give up! I cant watch this game anymore.
I thought this team looked really good on papers,but what happened??

By Tiju | November 14th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

Neuer vs Stekelenburg 0-0
Boateng vs Wiel 1-1
Badstuber vs Heitinga 1-1
Hummels vs Mathijsen 1-1
lahm vs Braafheid 4-2
Khedira vs Bommel 4-2
Kroos vs Strootman 2-2
Muller vs Kuyt 4-1
Ozil vs Sneijder 3-5
Podolski vs Babel 4-2
Gomez vs Huntelaar 2-4
Total
Dutch=22
Germany=26
Khedira is playing regularly for a star studded real marid team and cannot neglect that.i think if germany plays with Klose and schweni they will easily beat us.But we do have chance when we play with Roben-Znijder-Persie-Ricky …With strootman and Bommel/schaars/deguzman

By Robbert | November 14th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

Sneijder maybe out for the big game tomorrow. If thats true i think our chances will be slim to none. The most likely team will be then.

——-Huntelaar——-
Babel–Wijnaldum—Kuyt
—Strootman-vBommel-
Braafheid——-VDWiel-
—Mathijsen-Heitinga–
—–Stekelenburg—–

http://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/site/nieuws/187352/Sneijder_verlaat_Oranje_training_met_kuitblessure.html

Posted from Netherlands

By Robbert | November 14th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

teamcomparison Netherlands-Germany

Stekelenburg 0,5-Neuer 1
VDWiel 1- Boateng 0,5
Heitinga 0,5- Mertesacker 1
Mathijsen 0,5-Hummels 1
Braafheid 0,5- Aogo 0,5
Strootman 1- Kroos 1,5
Van Bommel 1- Khedira 0,5
Kuyt 0,5-Muller 2
Wijnaldum 0,5- Ozil 1,5
Babel 1- Podolski 1
Huntelaar 1- Gomez 1

Holland= 8
Germany=11,5

Posted from Netherlands

By Petrovic | November 14th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

I got a bad feeling about tomorrow game…
If Sneijder wont be able to play,we will be without all star players,while Germany is only without Schweinsteiger…

By goose | November 14th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

without Sneijder i think we have little change

Posted from Netherlands

By Jeff | November 14th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

It is incredible that most of the times our 4 main players are injured. We rearely if ever play with all 4. When we do we end up in the WC final. Let’s hope they are all healthy for the Euro.
To all those who claim that Narsingh, John or Maher are ready for the real Oranje, just check the u21 game. I am very concerned about the future. Once Wes, VP, VDV, and Robben retire, there will be a huge hole.

Posted from United States

By samuel Oudegeest | November 14th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

Can’t agree with this assessment of the 1990 team: “Well, their 1974 team did have a couple of brilliant players of course but the 1990 team?”

Klinsmann, Vogts, Matthaus, etc. were all darn good players. That’s one of the frustrating things about Oranje 1990 – such a collection of talent that should have pressed the Deutsche 11 to the wall (or beaten them) but just didn’t. And it was a German team that was on a huge emotional high too – remember that was just as re-unification was happening. The Deutsch really, really wanted to win.

And let’s face it – international voetbal is about pride more than anything – you get paid by your club – you win glory with your country. And you could really see that intense desire of Germany to win it on the field.

And yes, this new edition of Deutschland does seem to on the same level of Oranje – tons of talent – with lots of different options.

But – this game is still a friendly, so take the results in that context. Just happy that Van P is skipping the game. Remember what happened against Italy – an injury that I believe kept him from hitting his stride 2 years ago and probably robbed him of any chance of being the world beating star.

And of course 1994 was just as frustrating – why in god’s earth did Gullit think it made sense to take his ball and go home? That Oranje team was so close to beating Brazil and just painfully seemed to be that one stroke of genius away from excellence.

Oh well.

Posted from United States

By Petrovic | November 14th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

Jeff,I dont believe Sneijder was much better than Maher at that age.I dont know if any of the U21 players can be a future star,no one can see the future…But some of them have great talent,potential.
They really played an awful game today,yeah…But shit happens.:)

By jake | November 14th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

we pretty much no chance without sneijder/ affelay/ persie/ vaart, the team are only 50-60% full strength against germany who only less lahm and Schweinsteiger.

Stekelenburg 1 – Neuer 1
VDWiel 1- Boateng 0,5
Heitinga 0,5- Mertesacker 1
Mathijsen 0,5-Hummels 1
Braafheid 0,5- Aogo 0,5
Strootman 1 – Kroos 1
Van Bommel 1 – Khedira 1
Kuyt 1 – Muller 2
Wijnaldum 1 – Ozil 2
Babel 0.5 – Podolski 1
Huntelaar 1 – Gomez 1

Germany = 12
Holland= 8

with full team
Stekelenburg 1 – Neuer 1
VDWiel 1- Boateng 0,5
Heitinga 0,5- Mertesacker 1
Mathijsen 0,5-Hummels 1
Pieters 1 – Lamh 1.5
vVaart 1.5 – Schweinsteiger 2
Van Bommel 1 – Khedira 1
Robben 2.5 – Muller 2
Sneijder 2.5 – Ozil 2
Persie 2 – Podolski 1
Huntelaar 1 – Gomez 1

Holland = 14.5
Germany = 14

Posted from Australia

By Jan | November 14th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Whoa, without Sneijder ( and Vaart, Afellay, Robben, Van Persie, Elia on form, Kuyt on form) I believe we’re fodder for the Zjermans.

As for Germany 1990, I don’t think Berti Vogts was in that team .

Brehme, Matthaus, Riedle, Bein, Hassler…team players. Not great players.

The only good players were Littbarski, Moller, Thon and Klinsmann.

And we had Van Basten, Gullit, Koeman, Wouters, Rijkaard, Van Breukelen, Vanenburg, Schip, Witschge, Van Tiggelen….so many greats on their position.

We should have beaten them 3-0.

By Jan | November 14th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

BTw, I don’t think the Haan – Schumacher face off was anything serious. Just intimidating one another.

As mentioned ( and search this site for a long article on it!!) Bayern was invited to come to Amsterdam to be the opponent to Ajax when they waved JC off.

Ajax had won the European Cup thrice in a row and so had Bayern.

Apparently, the Ajax hosts had mistreated Bayern when they came into Amsterdam… They were given a shitty hotel, no reception or honors and the fans insulted the Germans calling them bad names. Like “unfriendly people” and “not nice person”.

So they decide to give the thick-necks ( nickname for Dutch people) a lesson.

Beckenbauer later apologised for it….

It was horror. I watched the game, it was supposed to be a celebration for Cruyff but they butchered Ajax 1-8.

It was like ten fat people with sticks killing baby seals.

Well…not really….

By Rami | November 14th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

Whats with all those stupid gradings ??!! lol

Anyhow.. Id be happy if Sneijder missed tomorrow’s game. More experimentation would then be necessary, which is always a good thing.

Besides this game tomorrow is not important. Let’s just all come to our senses, and stop hoping we’d win anything, instead hope we’d discover something new, useful for the upcoming euros in 7 months time.

More importantly if every player of ours ends up being fit by june, there are only 3 spots in the squad up for grabs, imo.

Stekelenbourg
Krul
Vorm
———-
Heitinga
Mathijsen
Douglas / Vlaar (most likely Douglas if he’s allowed to play)
Bruma
Van der Wiel
Pieters
Braafheid
———-
Van Bommel
De Jong
Strootman
Sneijder
Van der Vaart
Janssen/Schaars (undecided)
———-
Robben
Kuyt
Afellay
Babel/Drenthe/Lens/Wijnaldum/Elia (undecided)
Van Persie
Huntelaar
Van Wolfswinkel (undecided)

– I think Janssen’s maturity and experience are always going to be needed as a backup
- I think Babel is the favorite for this 2nd spot, because hes playing the most and is the most in form. But Id say if Drenthe got picked that would be really good. He has the most potential, especially now that hes managed by David Moyes at Everton, so you never know. Wijnaldum and Lens are young and largely untested. Elia should find a loan out of this Juventus and start playing regularly.
- If Ricky manages to achieve to score around 25 goals this season with Sporting, he should definitely be selected as a deputy for Huntelaar. Plus I sincerely feel BvM should find a back up play in playing 442 formation when needed, with Huntelaar and Van Persie

Posted from Lebanon

By Andrew | November 14th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

@Jan, Demi, Thanks for the bit of background re: Schumacher-Haan photo. Good picture, I was just curious. Schumacher was such a worldwide villain.

@Samuel O, Agree that the 1990 German team had some very good players. But, overall, that was adreadful WC, and the final was just awful. The referee made the worst penalty decision ever, and no once cared because at least the game didn’t have to go into overtime.

Agree with Jan, though, the ‘90 team should have beaten the Germans. Watch the game again some time. Until the Rijkaard-Voeller incident, it was all Oranje. They did everything but score. Alas…

By Demi | November 14th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

Andrew,

it takes several bottles of whiskey to forget the 1980 Euro, or the entire 79-88 period.. the barren years… oh, man let’s not talk about it at all ! we couldn’t even beat Greece without a penalty kick in EC 1980…

ok, let’s kick some duitse a** tomorrow

By gooranje | November 14th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

Who else other than Cruyff was playing for Ajax in that farewell game against Bayern? Even Bayern got angry and all serious, how can they win 8-1?

And while Van Marwijk is all about consistency and playing with consistent line-up, the Jong Oranje coach Pot is absolutely the opposite. His starting eleven were so different every game… That Scottish right winger is quite good!

By Jalepinho | November 14th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

thanks Robbert! those bastards… how dare they disrespect Cruyff like that

Posted from Hong Kong

By SamDC | November 14th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

If RVP was gonna play one single game then I would rather have him play the Germans. If Sneijder isn’t playing then our chances are very slim. We already are missing Robben and Affelay.
This game is more than just a friendly. Just look at England. Beating Spain has brought more confidence.
Anyways, I’m hoping for the best. I’m really disappointed that Babel is back. To me he’s one of the most useless and ineffective players. Kuyt is another ineffective player. I had a lot of excitement about this game but wih the recent status of player availability, my optimism has waned a lot.
Let’s hope that all our players at least give it their best!

Posted from United States

By gooranje | November 15th, 2011 at 12:54 am

I agree Babel had been very ineffective before. But he made his comeback with hardwork. He showed that in the last game, flying down the left flank. Good positioning and off the ball, which gave Sneijder one of the few options to pass to. Had two close shots himself and two nice passes. And he showed he is no longer only depend on his talent anymore, he trailed all the way back to his own area to defend in numerous occasions. If he keeps himself down to earth and work hard for himself and the team, he can bring a lot to the team.

By Sol | November 15th, 2011 at 3:35 am

Quote: “Once Wes, VP, VDV, and Robben retire, there will be a huge hole.”

I cannot agree more, I said as much just before the 2010 WC on this blog. For me, WC 2010 was OUR moment, the time where all these 4 players (and most of the players around them, Heitinga, de Jong, Kuyt) where at the ideal football-age in terms of both fitness and experience (25-30). In 2014 (cause I wanna win a WC, not an EC) they will all be 4 years past that point (just passing 30 for some, Robben and his injuries worry me the most for example, it will only get worse once he passes 30, if he’s still playing by then and hasn’t been Marco van Bastened Italian league style).

Posted from Netherlands

By Sol | November 15th, 2011 at 3:46 am

At least we have Strootman and Krul. That’s a relief for the future. I still have my hopes for Elia, and perhaps Barcelona can mold Affelay into something slightly more effective and comfortable in front of goal (more imaginative, cause when you’re comfortable, you start trying different finishes with higher success rates if you manage to pull them off, the way Messi scores his goals, chipping the keeper regularly, puttting him on the wrong foot with fake shots like Elia scored his first goal for us, etc.).

I saw vPersie try his first clever goal a few weeks ago (rightfooted chip from the edge of the box, it was beautiful but it hit the crossbar, keeper was completely beaten and wrongfooted). I was starting to get worried his finishes were becoming a bit too predictable, or perhaps I’m just watching him too much, but he seems to do the same things over and over, I would have liked to have seen him try his big chance against Switzerland with the outside of his foot for example, would have been more ‘clever’, same aim, just make the ball swerve towards the goal/inside of the post, instead of away from goal if you hit the ball with the inside of your foot, the finish is slightly harder to pull off, but has a much higher success rate if you do pull it off. And I know he can pull of good shots with his outside-foot, he just scored a goal against Chelsea that way (allthough that one wasn’t really aimed at anything in particular I think, well the goal in general).

Posted from Netherlands

By Sol | November 15th, 2011 at 4:10 am

I meant to say “first clever goal of this season”, but obviously I’m only referring to the games and highlights I’ve seen, that’s why I sort of left that part out. Lets’just say I haven’t seen him do much different than powershots (I can almost predict with 100% certainty when he’s going to try a powershot at the near post when he gets a pass that puts him towards the left of the goal from his view, he’s been doing that since his goal against Barcelona, with success on occasion if I might add, but still predictable, I’d say some of the keepers he has faced didn’t do their research very well, Krul can stop them ).