What will the future bring? part 2

@ Goose
no I am writing in 1 of my few times, Never been here under another name…

Posted from  Belgium

@Goose/Marcel,

I think the Lebanese you were referring to is “alaa”, based in the US.
We interacted with alaa since last World Cup.

Didn’t realize van Bommel is so popular in Holland. Seedorf was really good and he may not be a jerk, but I’m a firm believer of young and fresh squad with maybe 1 or 2 over 30 players (goalie, van the man, Kuyt can fill this quota). These guys have to play together for a while to create a core, like our 90s golden generation with 3 alternating players max.

In the last 2 tourneys, we never saw this. I’m now actually starting to question the decision to rest 9 starters vs. Romania. Ruining the rhythm.

–H

Posted from  United States

@ HedonistiX

Concerning the question about resting 9 players, I do not think it had an impact on the game:

I say wins against France, Italy were accomplished because we were the underdogs and because we always scored first then sat back and got the rest of the goals on the counter.

The Russian game was tactically lost before it began, because the Dutch did not go on the attack and pressure the Russians and exploit their mistakes, what were the dutch afraid of, I had a headache trying to find out why, and still haven’t found out the reason …

Holland defended in their own half and let the Russians play with the ball and prepare build ups and create the chances. They were the dutch and we were the Russians.

@goose

i am from lebanon, but there was also another guy who used to post here always his name is ramy, he is lebanese too.

Posted from  United States

goose you mentioned in your defensive line oijer, but the guy is now 34 years old, i think the new manager should look for new defenders. by wc 2010 oijer will be 36!!

can we clone stam and frank de boer?????

Posted from  United States

if drenthe proves himself in the coming months, he will be a great option on the flanks, the guy seems to be very skillful and strong as i watched few videos for him. or maybe we can use him as a holding midfielder if he develops more. then we have heitinga and boula who are really good defenders, so we’re missing one more in the centre of defense to complete this line!

since the day davids wasn’t anymore with the oranje, i always noticed there was a huge gap between our defensive line and our midfield, i don’t know if the new manager is gonna be able to solve this problem. i don’t know also if it the problem of the 4-2-3-1.

at the same time i feel that the pure 4-3-3 is very predictable and static.

Posted from  United States

Boula should be kept in the team, he is just brillant, he is good at attack and excellent at tackling.
Van Bommel is not on his top form anymore, and i don’t think he is good enough for the national team. I predict Marecllis can be the new star in defence, however, Vlaar is always injuried, Donk is good at heading but nothing else. In midfield, De Jong and Bruins are our future.

Posted from  United Kingdom

remember kromkamp, he is playing well in PSV for this two seasons, i think he should be secleted back to the squad, but as a sub of Boula or even zuiverdoon in the future. for goalie, i should seclet Krul as a sub, he can be the second VDS, but he need more first team experience first

Posted from  United Kingdom

i think we’ll have a stronger defense in 2010 than we do now.

for goal the retiring V.d.Sar looks impossible to replace. Stekelenburg still has a very very long way to go if he is to reach vds’ level.
after that only talents like Velthuizen(22,really our biggest talent at this moment), Vorm(24, maybe 3rd choice), Vermeer(22), Krul(20).

But there is a chance we’ll have a true world-class goalkeeper by 2010, because Heurelho Gomes(27),said he is looking at possibilities to obtain a dutch passport and play for holland, although with his move to tottenham, i can’t say what will happen.

For me only a few players proved to be really fit for the job.
First of all i would say bye-bye to V.Bronckhorst, Ooijer, Melchiot and Mathijsen.

keep Boulahrouz(26) and Heitinga(24)(our 2 best defenders0, i say give Bouma(30) another chance, didn’t play every game of the qualification but he looked pretty solid whenever or wherever he played.

De Cler(30) proved a pretty decent left back but looks a bit slow sometimes and will have to compete with Emanuelson(22). I believe Emanuelson still has a step to make in his defensive play. If that improves he’ll could become one of the best attacking leftbacks in the world, but so could Drenthe(21).

We than have a sh*tload of other talented defenders.

Zuiverloon(22) defenitaly deserves a chance at right-back:a pretty attacking back which we could use very well, played brilliantly for U-21 and regularly was one of our best players in young oranje.

Ryan Donk(22) is not to be underestimated, still very talented defender, only needs to improve a few things.

Dirk Marcellis(20) looks a bit short for a central defender but showed to be a very gifted defender with PSV in Eredivisie, CL, UC and U-21, already nicknamed the ice-rabbit.

Ron Vlaar(23), tall and strong, leader of U-21, despite of loud criticism, also looked strong and dependable at Feyenoord and still has the potential to improve.
Gregory van der Wiel(20)
Along with Marcellis a very young and talented defender, obviously learned a lot from Stam and Heitinga at Ajax, impressed me with his play, didn’t really make any big mistakes.

But lets not forget, and don’t laugh at me for mentioning these:
Edson Braafheid(25) playing for Twente(part of defence that conceeded least goals in Eredivisie). Became a strong, sharp central defender from being a reject at Utrecht, various critics saw him as a potential oranje defender, will play CL with Twente next season so we’ll see how he does.

Milano Koenders(22)
Might have looked weak and shaky at AZ but played right-back most of the season, and is best in centre.Going out on a loan next season i hope to see some of his talent returning in his play.

Gijs Luirink(25), captain of U-21 in EC portugal, moved to AZ, very promising, selected for oranje but suffered several heavy injuries.
i expect him to reclaim his place in the starting AZ line-up next season.

Arnold Kruiswijk(24), was second choice after Ron Vlaar at last EC-U21 but proved to be capable of just as impressive defending. Excelled at Groningen last season, now going to Belgium :Anderlecht, a bit dissapointing.

Michael Dingsdag(26), Best defender of Heerenveen, i believe not a much of an option as the others but he has made an impression and was one of the best Central defenders in the Eredivisie.

After them we have older players that could be an option like Serginho Greene(26) Rightback or centreback, Kevin Hofland(29) centre back, and Jan Kromkamp(28), attacking right-back, and if its the only way Melchiot(32) an Mathijsen(28) could be of use.

Posted from  Netherlands

Serginho Greene(26) Rightback or centreback, was a promising defender, but his progress kind of came to a halt before coming back a bit, for me he could still be usefull, as he is stron and very versatile(played at every defensive position with Feyenoord)but i am afraid world-class isn’t possible anymore

Kevin Hofland(29) centre back at Feyenoord, looked an impressive team with Vlaar, but it faded away with Vlaars’ injurie. At his former club PSV he was linked to topclubs like Manchester united but, after his own injurie never really recovered his quality. As captain at Wolfsburg he did good and was voted one of the better defenders in Bundesliga. Received a lot of criticism last season.

Jan Kromkamp(28), attacking right-back, from best rightback of the country at AZ, to the bench at Villareal and Liverpool, which he didn’t deserve, came back a bit to his former level but still not again the Kromkamp i loved, however, i feel he did more than fine at PSV.

Posted from  Netherlands

How many of Holland’s Euro08 back four and midfielders could start for Spain? Spain is /loaded/ with quality–if they all weren’t so small and ineffective on set pieces they’d be the best team in the tourney by far. (I have yet to see a Spanish player even come close to getting a head on the ball on a free kick or corner–they aren’t big enough to muscle in close to goal. That’s the only way Germany will beat them, if the Spanish advance.) Torres is a great player–he has dominated the right side. In the first half of the russia-spain semi, Arshavin (sp) hardly touched the ball! A complete non-factor. So maybe the Holland back four /aren’t/ so good at man-marking!

Posted from  United States

Jan…Once the game Spain vs. Russia is over…Please make some analysis of this game, especially how the Spanish have achieved against the Russians what the Dutch could not do. I am completely dejected!!!

Posted from  United States

I think the answer is that Spain has better players and a system to match their players wonderfully. Arshavin was invisible in this game, after running roughshod over Holland, and to me Spain just have quality all over the pitch…Much as I love Holland, I’m not sure the Dutch have more than three players who would start for Spain, perhaps not even that…Senna, Torres, Inieasta (sp), Fabragas (sp)–and add another three or four. I have to think that, because they control the ball so well and so much that they wear other teams down.

Posted from  United States

———————–waterman————————-
zuiverloon—–heitinga—–marcellis—–drenthe
——————siem de jong——————-
van der vaart——sneijder———robben
——————–Blind—————————–
—————–huntelaar————————–

Just really preparing for the future, obviosuly we would use van Bommel in wc 2010 quali’s. Blind is refering to Danny blind’s kid, Daley Blind, he has a contract with Ajax but is yet ot play. I watched him at the u-17 euro cup last year, he was injured the first game, scored 2 in the second, and got injured in the second half of that game, really talented tho.

Posted from  Canada

Of course theres always Julian de Guzman coming up.

Posted from  Canada

today’s match just prove that the russians are not better than the dutch, the dutch just have bad defenders that cannot defend. sweeden and greece are weak teams, just look at their starting 11, over 30. so for me russia is still a weak team, the dutch beat them 4-1 last year. the only reason they qualified is because england lost to croatia.

Posted from  United States

So Ger-Spa the final…that russia game just cost me 400 euro’s! &*&*!!*^%@

lets just hope Spain can keep it up till the final and slaughter the germans…but i think we all know how it is gonna end in real life!!

@Alex; good list, think you covered it pretty well…i esp. have great hopes for Marcellis and Ryan Donk. they look pretty confident defenders at a young age and both can play football
just heard Jack vGelder say that Gomes is not going to be a dutchie (hes prob. leaving for Spurs btw) but i rather have a real dutchman anyway, Velthuizen should become a great goalie if he isnt one already

the future looks bright, the future looks Orange

Posted from  Netherlands

btw; rami! thats the one..cheers alaa

Posted from  Netherlands

Spain played against Russia the way that we should have played against them. They played a lot of quick passing and attacked, which is how we should have played. I’m cheering for Spain to win it! They’ve actually been my second team throughout the tournament so I’m glad they’ve made it to the final.

Posted from  Canada

i hope spain will crush germany in the final. happy that they won against russia but still sad because of our elimination… at least all barca players (puyol,xavi,iniesta) were excellant.

Posted from  Hungary

Holland is better than Spain. And no, i´m not saying this bcause i´m dutch. Holland just didn´t play football against the russians. Everybody is saying this euro 08 the level is high but i don´t think so. Germany is still lucky. Spain overrated they won by penalties against the Azzuri´s, and Holland players have better skills. Italy have to change the waiting game, and start playing football. Portugal the defence is poor. The Czechs have to bring some new young blood back in the squad. France is not bad at all Holland was lucky at times the didn´t score, and van de Sar is just awesome all the way through the tournement. I did like Turkey they just play´d football and they were not afraid of nobody and the never gave up. But they didn´t defend well against the Germans. I think should get stronger mentally. Holland is still one of the best learning countries for the youth. I hope they have a better tournement next time.

Posted from  Netherlands

i believe spain unlike holland, played their own game and only chased the russians when needed, they kept the ball for themselves as long and often as possible, tiring the russians who now had to chase the spanish, eventually, when the russian midfield and backs became a bit tired the spanish with their advancing midfielders took advantage of that and often outnumbered the russians in front of their goal. The russians had to do something being a goal down and started changing their line-up, putting an extra player forward, despit that they couldn’t really find any room or chances, combine that newly created space up front for Spain with the tiredness of the russians and the spanish could easily dominate and complete the job. The russians were unable to close the gaps in their back quick enough because they were tired of chasing the Spanish midfield and attacking backs, so it actually was pretty easy for the Spanish to finish them off. Besides that i get the impression that the Russians don’t really know how to deal with being behind in a game, they almost immediately lose faith and nothing in their play seems to function. Thats the vital error V.Basten made, he had one attacking back (Gio) that pretty much had Engelaar to back him up defensively in midfield, Meanwhile Ooijer and Mathijsen had their hands full controlling Pavlyuchenko, which i found retarded, they were both constantly following him. Do you all still understand.

While gio tried to attack a bit Engelaar had to control the upcoming russian back in the counter(sneijder didn’t really put in sufficiant defending work for anything else) leaving a space in midfield wich de Jong had to close, with that he also had Arshavin on his hands so, playing like that gave Arshavin all the space and freedom he needed to really hurt us, now im not saying De Jong didn’t do good enough you’re wrong, i thought he was one of the best dutch players on the pitch during the game, it’s just that he had to put in so much work cleaning up for others that his primary task of neutralising Arshavin alomst became mission impossible.
Arshavin now and then having these enormous amounts of space could easily pressure our defense on his own, that for me shows the lack of defensive quality by Mathijsen and Ooijer, only as a pair could they really cope with pavlyuchenko but with Arshavin coming in from midfield one of the two central defenders had to pressure him leaving either Mathijsen or Ooijer in a man-to-man situation, ABSOLUTELY DEADLY, however this could have been only a little problem, you could have contained it with Boulahrouz or Heitinga covering either Ooijers’ or Mathijsen’s back and Kuyt coming back
to cover for Boulahrouz/Heitinga. However with the russians attacking backs kuyt had his hands full already. This altogether led to a complete Russians overrun when they were in possesion but especially in their counter.
The dutch sides having to cope with the russian backs (they primarily chased the russians)meant that the place the russians were most vulnerable was left unattacked(the backs of their central defence), at times our right flank had mils of space and the opportunity to out in a cross for goal, this however backfired since Boulahrouz is a great defender, he isn’t as good attacking, so the right side didn’t really produce a lot of danger. On the left Gio and Engelaar coping with the back did’nt really get to attack as much as they would have liked leaving Sneijder, V.d.Vaart, V.Persie and Affelay a bit isolated, and especially V.Nistelrooy who got caught the same way as in 2006 in the WC, nobody could actually reach him close or in front of goal. Result: the only thing keeping us in the game was Van der Sar, our substitutes didn’t really change anything of the field game, our only weapon was free kicks, which we eventually scored from having pushed our players to the limit. But in extension, exhaustion on our behalf let the russians finish it off, leaving a brilliant but lonely V.d.Sar without a chance. Shattering hopes of winning a title for us.

The harsh reality is that our team went in to this game, with their minds affected by the tragedy of Boulahrouz’ child, with most of our important players out of their rythm having not played for more than a week. And they fell for Hiddink’s game of creating an underdog role for Russia in the public but also without really doing anything let the critics and media scare the dutch players, V.Basten fell for it the same way his players did, he gave them to much to think about, they were to affraid to play their own game from the start, they crapped their paints everytime the russians captured the ball from us in our attack.

ultimate conclusion:V.Basten failed as a coach, players went to long without a game, and Boulahrouz shouldn’t have played.

Posted from  Netherlands

thanks

thakns, but i notice now, i still made a few mistakes in it, really Boulahrouz could have played, but just not rightback- he didn’t have anyone to mark so he just strayed a bit. Putting him in centre on Pavlyuchenko would have given Mathijsen some extra air, i’m sure Boulahrouz would have put their striker out of the game(without actually injuring him off course, and this probably would have solved the problem de Jong had with Arshavin, fairly easily,since Mathijsen would then be able to defend a bit more free and support Gio and Engelaar, resulting in De Jong actually getting the chance of really neutralising Arshavin. With that, V.Basten should have put in a more attacking rightback, i”m pretty sure not Ooijer, but Melchiot(…yes Melchiot), or Heitinga, they can both deliver a pretty good cross upfront, putting pressure on their defence in stead of ours.
so to summorize, their attackers would have been covered pretty steadily, our sides would have had more freedom to attack, their defence would have been pressured instead of ours, so i believe we would have a had a better chance of winning. I blame V.Basten for maybe seeing the problem but not act accordingly.

Posted from  Netherlands