Comments on: Van Basten vs Johan Derksen

By: tjeerd

tjeerd — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:59:54 +0000

I enjoyed the interview. Clever of Marco to turn the tables on Derkson at the end.

By: goose

goose — Sat, 10 May 2008 19:35:49 +0000

well’ if’ and ‘could ‘dont count

saw some U17 action (Hol v Schotland) today..this younger brother of Sneijder is a very good player..i was impressed

By: ferenc

ferenc — Sat, 10 May 2008 14:08:12 +0000

actually your argumentation is logical. we could have beaten portugal,we were unlucky and marco did the worst choice of his life (kuyt instead ruud) ,england as always was crap ,so we easily would have eliminated them (something like 3-0,3-1),but in the semi final france would have beaten oranje.

By: Jan

Jan — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:34:55 +0000

I beg to disagree .

We may not have had the World Class team in 06, but if we would have won against Portugal (and they didn’t play us off the pitch, remember) anything could have happened! I can’t remember who we would have played in the draw but there was no outstanding team in ‘06 (bar Germany?). That’s what I meant to say.

Other than that, I agree with all you guys said. Incl the Sacchi comment. And don’t forget Gullit at LA Galaxy

By: ferenc

ferenc — Sat, 10 May 2008 10:25:44 +0000

what is interesting too that 4 of the “sacchi babies” have become very important managers: marco (oranje,ajax),frankie (oranje,barca,?),carlo (milan),donadoni (italy). we always say that rinus and johan were the greatest coaches. i’m agree with this opinion. but sacchi definitely has his place there as well.

By: ferenc

ferenc — Sat, 10 May 2008 10:23:06 +0000

Jan: in 2006 we didn’t have the team for the title (especially without seedorf,davids and huntelaar). in 98 yes. marco is not that bad as sometimes we think. he doesn’t have the material. this generation has nothing to do with the 70s,late 80s and 90s-early 00s generations. the problem is that we don’t want to consider this fact and try to say that our defenders are not that worse than stam and fdb,however the reality is,that even reiziger is a world class player comparing with our current defenders. the midfield is ok,meanwhile we don’t have holding midfielders like davids,wim jonk, jan wouters,etc. the rest? maybe,but a bergkamp,kluivert or a gullit,van basten duo were much more convincing than ruud and van persie. marco has these players. hope that we’ll get some results. agree with others i don’t care about the qualifications. great teams don’t care about them too much: italy always have problems,france too. one thing counts: to be there,and that’s it. we are there. only tournaments are important. i’m sure that we will see a different oranje there. and a different italy and france too. our great chance that we’ll start against italy. 0-0 is great for both team. the beginning is always difficult. our key games will be against france and romania.

By: goose

goose — Sat, 10 May 2008 08:04:52 +0000

Funny; always looks like the people on this blog who live in Holland are a little harder on vBasten

Jan; we did not have a shot at the WC06… WC98; yes

By: Jan

Jan — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:07:40 +0000

Hmmm…. John, if I understand you correctly, you say that it was maybe good of Marco to not follow Johan’s advice on the Ajax reorganisation, but you do feel Marco failed as team manager for Oranje, right?

I agree with the Ajax bit. If Marco is right, Johan apparently said: do it my way or I walk away. That sort of sounds like an ultimatum. Not something that works, and Marco made a brave decision to go for Ajax’ best interests, despite what Johan thought about it.

As for Marco ruining Oranje’s reputation… I don’t know. Football has changed. A lot. Dutch total football was impressive in the 70s because it was new. You can’t surprise opponents anymore and every big nation has trouble winning against smaller nations. The qualification matches of Oranje for the WC74 were horrible. In fact, due to a referee’s mistake Holland got to go, otherwise Belgium was qualified!! Never forget that

And we had a super generation back then: Cruyff, De Kromme, Nees, Rensenbrink, Rep, Krol, Muhren… I mean… We don’t have that quality now. Even Wenger and Rijkaard – who really try to play great football – didn’t win prizes this season. And they have their players every day, while Marco only sees them every now and then. Plus, as a team manager you can’t do squat when you miss certain qualities on certain positions.

In all honesty, I don’t care if Oranje plays great football in qualification. I want them to qualify and playing C-rate teams is hard! I want them to do good at the big tournaments and rather with great football.

But it rarely happens that the best playing team wins. Ask the Brazilians in 1982, Czech Republic in 1996 or 2004. Oranje in 1998. Oranje in 1992.

Etc etc.

I didn’t mind Oranje’s performance against Serbia and Ivory Coast in Germany 2006. The Argentina game was for the cats balls and the Portugal match, well… I’ve never seen anything like that before, to be honest. If Cocu and Van Persie had more luck (…), we could have won that game too.

I believe we would have played England (easy) and then… Can’t remember who, but I think we would have had a shot at the title…. REALLY

By: John

John — Fri, 09 May 2008 10:39:58 +0000

I saw the interview and ofcourse Marco van Basten made scored some points yet it doesn’t make the trouble Derksen pointed out go away. Remember: Van Basten is Cruijff’s former protege and learned everything from him in his earlier years. Remember at the beginning of Euro 1988? Michels put Van Basten as a right winger during the last matches of the Dutch squad because Kieft and Bosman were playing fantastic as strikers. Van Basten was desillusioned after the game and asked his friend and coach Cruijff for help, who advised him not to accept this and make a demand wich was:Or you gonna put me as a striker on the team or i won’t go to Euro 88 in Germany. Wisely van Basten choose not to make this demand to Cruijff’s former teachter/coach and just go with the squad and become healthier for the next Italian football season and see were it all would end. Well we all know what happened? Bosman as central striker failed at the first game(wich Holland lost against Russia) and Van Basten was called upon in the next game and became the topscorer of the tournament. So i think the plans Cruijff had with Ajax were to old fashioned and Marco’s decision not to follow it up was the correct one. Remember the old saying? never throw your old shoe away before you have new ones. Regarding Van Basten’s way as the coach of the national team: He wiped out with the ‘german’ style of football at the Worldcup 2006 in Germany all of Holland’s wellknown reputation since 1974. That was a greater damage then anyone before. For that i think Van Basten is a disgrace and were Derksen his remarks right on the spot and to the point. I too have hardly any regards for Van Basten as the dutch coach and expect nothing at Euro 2008. Infact i expect us home within two weeks.

By: Genio

Genio — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:58:08 +0000

Wow really enjoyable discussion here… I snickered at Jan’s closing line (Give them a ball, feed them well, rent some videos and go play football!) what videos do footballers like to watch anyway -someone gimme a clue.