Seedorf quits Oranje: “Marco doesn’t like me…”

1-1 63rd min

Posted from  Germany

The question is; should Clarence just shut up and do whats best for the team?.. he looked so positive lately; why cant he be positive within the group without playing (or the certanty of it)..also, theres always a change somebody gets injured or is suspended..

btw; Seedorf told the press that he isnt quiting Oranje, he just doenst want to play as long as vBasten is Bondscoach

but eh; thats vBommel, vNiselrooy and Seedorf…. nice little list, seems to me that vBasten cant manage players with an outspoken mind and character(?)

Posted from  Netherlands

@goose: you can put kromkamp on the list too… you’re right,he’s a bad people-manager. what about van marwijk? knowing that rijkaard is no more barca’s coach,i’d prefer him as oranje’s manager. at least he’s a good people manager. sometimes too good…

Posted from  Hungary

@caleb of course he didn’t “forget”, what coach can forget a player ??
that’s a way to say the big mistake he did not to convoke drenthe
“not ready” ? … i don’t think so, but whatever take him in the 23 even if you don’t expect him to start.
he is versatil, able to play left-back, winger or even midfielder,
he’s faster than other, has high technical skills, great mental …
oh sorry he’s only twenty … oh so it’s better for him to stay at home.
In france we’ve got benzema who start only fivety match in the league since his carreer begin … he is the best scorer this year, only nineteen years old,
yes he probably won’t start even if he is the best striker at this moment,
but of course he’ll be a joker for the team.
drenthe is that kind of great champion, that could make an impulse into a match, he can substitute player in any line, so yes, van basten should take him, moreover after seedorf’s leaving.

Posted from  France

MVB lacks people skills.

well…van bommel, seedorf, kromkamp out, who else?

I knew something like this would happen sooner or later.

Marco is the worst coach I’ve ever seen in my life. Fights or bad decisions he has had as Oranje coach:

1) Bench Ruud with Portugal.
2) Not selecting Huntelaar for the WC 2006 when he had had a great year.
3) Van Bommel.
4) Seedorf.
5) Kromkamp.
6) Davids. Named captain and then MvB saying Davids was as old as Jan Wouters, so why call him bakc!!!.
7) Kuyt played the whole WC qualifyings as right winger but he remembered he was a center forward just before the game with Portugal.
We never had a regular starting team.
9) Maduro. He was an important player during the WC ‘06 qualifyings but he was erased from Marco’s map.

Just some stupid decisions I remember he made. I still hope we can overcome this stupidities, I’m sorry if I’m being to hard on Marco but I really get frustrated because we wait 4 years to watch this great Holland side and because some person we can’t enjoy but I still hope we can do a good job.

@goose: “can’t manage players”, @ferenc: “he’s bad people manager”, @tjeerd: “lacks people skill”, @Miguel: “worst coach”. I agree with you guys. Too many bad decision.

Frenchie & Miguel have a good point, under MvB we never had a regular Starting XI. No wonder, everyone on this blog, have no same perception about the starting line up. Compare with our last best starting XI (Van Der Sar, Reiziger, Stam, F.De Boer, Numan, Jonk, Davids, R.De Boer, Overmars, Bergkamp ,Kluivert) WC ‘98 + multi talented, Philip Cocu, who can sub anyone.

Poor to see our unorganize & instability team because of the manager. But i still hope MvB can bring the title

Also agree with frenchie about Drenthe. He’s our asset & important player. Can Marco’s called him to replace Seedorf place??? I’m exited to see him in Euro. Hope MvB not make us more upset with choosing Landzaat & De Jong in 23 player.

I’d like to take a different standpoint. The only thing Marco’s been guilty of is not lying down to the big names who aren’t doing it on the pitch. Van Bommel was crap at WC2006, his attitude was shocking and he deserved to be benched. Can’t take being dropped? Fine, sod off we don’t need you. Not “loved enough” Seedorf? No-one stroking that gigantic ego of yours? Fine, piss off like a wimp then, don’t actually, y’know, force the issue by becoming the main man in an orange shirt ON THE PITCH. Ruud had a crap World Cup and deserved benching - seemingly he’s not a complete tool and came back when his form had recovered and he was proving himself on the pitch - good one Ruud (Seedorf & Van Bommel take note). Kromkamp is a shame, but every coach has their preferences.

Basically, why is no-one putting the blame on Seedorf and Van Bommel for being dicks? If a manager who doesn’t worship the ground you tread on is enough to make you rule yourself out of playing for your country then you’re a scumbag in my books. THEY lack people skills.

And come on guys - Drenthe? He’s my favourite talent for the future but he’s barely played for Madrid - he’ll have plenty of chances but guys like Landzaat, much as I think he’s a bit rubbish, can bring some experience to the squad.

Posted from  Japan

Rob: why ancelotti and hitzfeld have good relationsho with seedorf and van bommel,and why marco has not? rvn wasn’t good at the wc because he barely got decent passes. van bommel might be a dick,but clarence is a very nice and intelligent person. on drenthe i’m agree with you - first he has to show his talent in madrid (he didn’t play too often,and when he did,he was almost always crap). i think he’s talented but playing u21 tournament and playin european championship are really different.

Posted from  Hungary

@ferenc: Maybe Seedorf and VBM have a starting position at their clubs?

Posted from  United States

@migual
What u said is exactly right
He negelcted Maduro,Castelen etc both wre cruicial in some game (vs finland,Romania,Czec etc).

@tju: castelen was good 2 or 3 years ago. he’s not regular in hamburg which is not a big club. he’s talented but hasn’t proved anything yet. maduro? in valencia he had a less than mediocre season. he’s not bad,but honestly he’s not mature enough for the ec.

Posted from  Hungary

@Rob: How can you have problems with so many experienced players?, as ferenc said Ruud didn’t get any decent passes at the WC’06 and he was always taken off with 30′ left to play. Van Bommel didn’t play well at the WC but I think it wasn’t his fault, I mean did you see Sneijder or Cocu play well?, I didn’t so I think Marco’s strategies didn’t fit with our midfield. After 2 years of being in charge of the national team he called Seedorf for the 1st time during his reign, how do you think Seedorf feels about this situation? and when called back he only plays 2 to 5′. Marco is the only one to blame.

Edwin

Kromkamp, Heintinga, Bouma, Gio

Seedorf, Van Bommel, Sneijder, Robben

Ruud and Van Persie

*Strong midfield with great creative players but it simply won’t be possible.

Rob - I agree with you, especially about the Drenthe part. I think Drenthe is a great player for the future and a real prospect, but he’s barely playing at Madrid. There’s always some dreamers who say this or that player should be picked because they like something about him, but you have to wake up and look at the facts when you choose a team - facts like whether the player is even playing regularly at their club.

Also, I believe Drenthe is going to the olympics this summer, which is good for him and good for the Dutch U21 team.

Posted from  Canada

I tend to agree with Rob here. Although Marco has his flaws, for sure, he is much more human and accessible than Ernst Happel or Rinus Michels were, to name two former Dutch team managers. There are much more foreign examples to name. Seedorf’s decision to drop out is the right one, as his decision proves :-). He can’t motivate himself to be part of the team, is basically what he says. It’s about Seedorf being important. It’s his ego. An experienced player like him, with all that silverware, should be more than happy to support his younger team mates, even if the coach has tagged you “sub no. 3″.

And all that “warmth” stuff… Seedorf should enlist in the army. Or work a normal job for a day.

I think Van Basten is honest in his approach. Maybe too honest. In Holland we have an expression: “making someone feel important”. Smells like manipulation, almost. Van Basten doesn’t do that. When asked if he had a good relationship with Seedorf, he answered: “It’s always great to talk to Clarence. If you have the time…” Implying that Seedorf is high on maintenance. Now, Van Basten shouldn’t joke about this on tv of course, but he is very straightforward in his approach.

Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy had run-ins with Van Basten. I truly believe that Marco benched Van Nistelrooy against Portugal at the WV for disciplinary reasons, not because Marco thougt Ruud played crap.

Van Bommel and Basten came in a situation where they couldn’t work together anymore. I think Van Bommel is partly to blame. He is no angel.

I don’t know what the deal is with Kromkamp, but I do know something happened in a trainins camp somewhere and I believe Marco thinks Kromkamp’s personality is a problem in the group dynamics.

And to be honest, if you feel that as a coach, you must act. But you can’t give out a statement to the public about it. But it’s a team sport and as a manager you have to form the right team. Van Basten is very ambitious and will do whatever to win the title. If he needs to select players he doesn’t like personally, he will. So, it’s too easy (to me) to claim Van Basten only selects his “friends” or something like that.

Posted from  Australia

BTW, when Seedorf came back in Oranje, Van Basten immediately said he would be behind Vaart and Sneijder in the hierarchy. He never accepted Seedorf back as the Long Lost Son or something. Seedorf thought he could handle the competition, but he didn’t manage to impress the technical staff.

Posted from  Australia

Marco is a bit like Ferguson. They both can’t handle experimented players who give their opinions. Ferguson fought with Stam, Beckham, Keane, Ruud let’s hope Marco can do it with his young players like Ferguson has done this year.

Interesting, coz Marco likes to think of himself as an “Arsene Wenger” type.

Posted from  Australia

@MR; well spotted and true

Posted from  Netherlands

Mark van Bommel said in the AD that Clarence decision was “top class”.

“I know Clarence, he really wanted to go to the EC. That his principles are more important shows what a top guy he is. He said Marco didn’t like him, well…that’s almost literally how I put it. The reason I didn’t play was surely not on the basis of my qualities. There’s something personal but I don’t know what. I wish he just told me.”

Nice soundbites, but we shouldn’t forget that “qualities” alone is not good enough, Mark. One also needs to “fit in”. But then again, Mark is right with his last remark. Marco should be open about his reasons.

Posted from  Australia

Van Bommel’s comments really do make me sick. Does he think Marco Van Basten is the be all and end all of Oranje? Do his principals not include accepting the prestige of representing your nation and the millions of people therein, above and beyond whatever guy’s selecting the team? Absolutely pathetic, babyish, rattle out of the pram behaviour. Maybe the personal thing, Mark and Clarence, could just possibly be that Van Basten got sick of your half arsed performances at the World Cup and thought he’d give some of the youngsters who don’t act like arrogant, half-arsed tossers all the time, a chance? But no, it must be that he just “doesn’t like you”. Urgh.

The blame is not on Marco Van Basten. He hasn’tt frozen these guys out of the team. He’s been professional enough to look at their form and recall them when they started playing well. The blame is on the egos who won’t forgive and forget, or accept a bench place.

In England, David Bentley refused to go to the U21 competition because of fatigue. He got vilanised and roundly booed for half a season or so by England fans across the country. Hell, he still hasn’t been forgiven. If Van Bommel and Seedorf pulled this crap in England, they’d probably be lynched.

Posted from  Japan