Ruud van Gol: Italy is a world class nation

Warning!!! I think this team my be the most impressive team in the tourney. Whether that results into winning the prize is the bigger question.

Posted from  Canada

This being Italy or Holland?

And I love your warnings. Whether people heed or not is another thing.

Quite frankly any ASTUTE observer of soccer should have noticed this about Italy.

Nice article Jan.

FINALLY ONE OF THE MOST INTELLIGENT THINGS EVER SAID ABOUT THE AZZURRI. It’s always been the usual stupidity that showed more about how little people knew about a) soccer and b) Italy.

All I have to say is: DUH.

Let everyone talk and delude themselves. Italy will do it their way.

Van Gol is right, the Italian press and players always hold in high regard other countries. Why? Because foreigners played in Italy. Juventus with its French connection, AC Milan with the Swedes, Dutch and Brazilians, Inter with the Argentinians. Italy in turn is always learns. Just read about Coverciano and you’ll know everything you need to know what the Italians are masters.

It’s interesting to see now that some Italians go abroad how people start to see what makes them tick. Ribery never knew what made Italian strikers so effective until he became friends with Toni. Thuram played in Italy and always knew how mentally tough they were. Capello will once and for all show the English how it’s done. Trap will introduce to Ireland that meticulous and ruthless preparation. Cannavaro etc.

It’s good for Italy. It can help to break the misconceptions held against them.

Posted from  Canada

The Italians certainly do play a much shrewder game. Of all nations, Italian players are brought up with the greatest understanding of the tricks and clever techniques you can use to get effective results. Naturallly, this tactical coaching at a young age breeds players with a great understanding tactically – so when they come to play in a national team they can adept and be on the same mindset much more freely than other countries. Germany could be thought of similarly. In Spain and Netherlands, it seems to me, players aren’t brought up with an emphasis on team discipline, on an understanding of efficiency and effective results – a club team’s discipline comes from playing week in week out with each other and naturally learning each other’s game. Worse still is England where coaches teach a Neanderthal game of long ball football to youngsters. Subsequently, in the national team the players don’t naturally know each other and can’t adapt so well tactically.

The end result is that Italy and Germany work as a unit, and this makes them successful without always having the most technically gifted players. When a team like England comes together it’s a shambles and no-one can adapt – that’s because it’s not taught well enough at a young age. My fifty cents anyway.

Posted from  Japan

Jan and Rob: Bingo.

Moreover, Capello said that in Spain the lower table teams with less talent still unrealistically try to play “attractive” soccer. It’s anything but. Whereas in Italy, the lower table teams (while play more offensively now) play with an emphasis on aggressive play. That’s why they are always ready to be thrown to the wolves when they are need.

That’s why I maintain, as a whole, Italy offers the best all round soccer for true heavy soccer fans in my opinion. It also comes down to matter of taste I suppose.

What do you think Capello is going to do with England? He’s going to make them understand that mental preparation matters. If you plan to just show up and play you ain’t gonna win.

Finally, a forum that is basically uncovering Italy.

Congrats Jan.

PS: That’s why I laugh when the French act like they are wounded when they play Italy. The French are stacked with players who aren’t exactly angels. Vieira, Makalele, Gallas etc. At least the Italians don’t pretend to be something they’re not. The French pretend they are honourable. Bull shit. They play to win and they can be just as shrewd and cynical as anyone.

This manifested itself during the Zidane years. It was no secret in Italy that he was a violent player. That’s why Juve fans don’t revere him – in parts – like they do other French legends. The press and the fans protected this guy to the point that when he committed the stupidest play in soccer history, they turned it on Materazzi. The British press were irresponsible dicks too. It helped perpetuate this insipid view of Italian soccer as being “dirty.” I think Rob explained it very, very well.

Absurd on many levels, Zidane got played and simply acted as he always did – outstanding talent notwithstanding.

My French friends hate hearing this but Italians knew Zidane before the French knew him. You know the joke: France became soccer fans in 1998.

By the way, I say this not to chastise them. On the contrary, I hold them in high regard. Their soccer pedigree is superb. It’s just that since 2006 their behaviour towards Italy has been ridiculous. It’s true what Van Gol said, Italian players always respected the French. That’s why they never got into a war of words with that clown Domenech. Well, only Gattuso but he’s an animal.

Posted from  Canada

Just a couple of days back, ESPN Soccernet reported Wesley Sneijder saying that Italians are ‘terrified’ of Holland.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=542474&cc=5901

I am not sure whether this was a sarcastic arrogant barb or a genuine feeling of overconfidence. Either way, it kind of summarises the attitude of Oraanje in not acknowledging the fact that being humble allows you to focus on your strengths.

Compare this with what Ruud said about Cannavaro. That is the language champions speak. Respect the fact that the opposition is good, and you have to put your best foot forward. The moment you start shooting off your mouth like WS, there is additional pressure on you as people would be eager to pounce on supposedly bombastic statements like this.

Curiously have we ever seen Brazil, Germany or Italy doing like this? This overconfidence ruined the 1974 finals, this overconfidence forced me to tear my hair out in disbelief as the Dutch, after a fresh 6-1 pasting of Yugoslavia, just threw the euro-2000 semifinals.

A rather out-of-place example here from the game of cricket, very popular in India, from where I hail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricket): In 1976, the erstwhile skipper of the English team Tony Greig mentioned that he will make the West Indies team ‘grovel’ when they visit England. Unfortunately the word grovel had racial connotations for the Afro-American man. This spurred the opposition and the result was an thumping 3-0 series victory for West Indies.
Such is the power of the spoken word, which some of the younger Oraanje members do not seem to realise.

I believe there is a recent book out about Italian football, titled “Winning at Any Cost: The Story of Italian Football”, which apparently parrots many of the comments made by the bloggers to this article. Remember in 2000 when the Dutch missed two penalty kicks during the match, then lost the match during the penalty kick phase? Clearly, the Netherlands should have won that match, yet once again, a mental/attitudinal breakdown? Italy hangs tough and prevails, the Dutch ….

The cultural trend in Holland of talking a lot is both a blessing and a curse.I have always believed that, unless you speak maturely such as van Nistelrooij did in this article, athletes should say nothing. However, and this goes back to the Great Example himself, Johan C, Dutch athletes do often suffer from “hoof and mouth” disease, such as Sneijders comment. These remarks can often motivate an opponent–why do that, when they are challenging enough already? Prove your skills with the actions of your body, Wesley, not your mouth. As the expression goes here in the US, words are cheap and mean nothing without performance.

Posted from  United States

I love this thread.

Prabal and Bob. Great points. Italians playfully laugh about 2000. They knew they should have lost but you play until someone wins and that’s what they do. While the world looked on in disgust I admired their resiliency. Some writer said the “right” team won in 2000. It was a curious statement to make – especially since Italy played better than France. But in the end, France won and no use crying over spilled milk.

Prabal: It is true. Italy, Germany and Brazil doe seem to respect their opponents. In the case of Italy, because I follow them more, this is so. The English still think they’ll win Euro 2008. Remember how they looked at Croatia? Capello will change this mentality.

Bob: I wouldn’t be too hard on Sneijder. He was just trying to rally the troops. Either that or he does have a lack of respect – and you’re right that’s when you lose. Athletes always say things like this. It is what it is.

I would also invite people to read “The Italian Job” by Gianluca Vialli. He explores both the English and Italian games. In doing so it becomes evident why Italy are champions. The teach players to play for the result. I know this goes against the grain of the popular belief of how soccer “should” be played but Italy doesn’t pretend it can play like Brazil. There is but ONE Brazil. Portugal and Spain can try but they are not. You have to build your team according to the character of your players and Italy (Germany, Brazil too) do this very well.

Would you rather win 1-0 being outplayed or lose 1-0 but dominating playing “attractive” soccer?

When I was young it was the latter. I wanted to look good. It meant believing you were better than the other team. Now that I’m older I can life is sometimes hard and cynical and a lunch pail mentality is needed. You can mix the two but very few countries are willing to go the distance like Germany and Italy do. Brazil is a different case.

Posted from  Canada