How do we feel now?

What actually is up with Van Persie? Used to think he was a semi-likeable chap, even though he plays for the Arse. What did I miss in the process? Was he a complete prat in Holland too before Arsenal grabbed him? What is the story here?

Posted from  United States

Give some credit to the Russians, guys. Not even on their best night could Ruud and Co. cope with the likes of Arshavin, Anyukov, and Zhirkov… you are just so used to thinking that Russian football is crap, you can’t get over the fact that they might actually have been better than you for once. Show some respect.

Posted from  United States

@ Sasha
the dutch beat russia 4-1 in february 07. the russians played really well but to lose 3-1 after beating italy and france is just sad.

Posted from  United States

@Sasha,
I think if you read these threads a little more carefully you will find mostly respect from the contributors. Most Oranje fans has said nothing but good things about Russia, and quite deservedly so. You were better on the day, no question about it.

Doesn’t mean you’ll beat us again though. Good luck against Spain, you will need it.

I have plenty of respect for the Russian team, but I don’t like gloating from someone on an Oranje blog. We are hurting enough as is. No need to rub it in mate.

Posted from  United States

I think the real test for Russia is indeed the fight against Spain with their captain this time. Having a Dutch coach tactically fully prepared against the Dutch team is one thing, but facing teams with players and tactics he doesn’t know inside out for years is another. I’m curious to see how Hiddink’s tactics hold up against others (other than Greece and Sweden, because they were both very weak to begin with).

Dutch fans – South Africa is counting on your participation in the 2010 World Cup. Yet how can you travel to South Africa and spend your Euros there when you know that South Africa President Thabo Mbeki is giving harbour to a cruel, murderous dictator? Stay at home and protest in front of the South Africa embassy. We will miss seeing your orange pride in the stands, but it is so much better than having to see the red blood of Zimbabweans in the street.

Boycott the 2010 World Cup. Mbeki is protecting a murderous dictator. Mbeki’s legacy will forever be tied to his inaction. http://zimsolidarity.blogspot.com/

Posted from  United States

Timba,
I appreciate your concern about Zimbabwe, but I fail to see the relevance of bringing politics into an honest football/soccer forum. There are plenty of those dedicated for just that out there.

Either way, if Oranje plays like they did against Russia in the WC10 qualification, your post will be a non-issue and you should forward it to the Scottish and Norwegian one.

Posted from  United States

Here are some thoughts:

1) I thought Van Basten grew into the job. There were problems/issues/uncertainty for the first two/three years, the team was simply not good enough to make a real mark at the last World Cup–but the coach got the team fairly well organized and they came on the last few months. There was good team spirit and the performance at the Euro championship was very good until the last-game disaster–in which Van Basten was schooled by a better coach in every way. Tournaments are always weird–bad calls, penalty kicks, luck plays a huge role. Had the Dutch stolen a win against Russia–as other teams often steal wins in tournaments–we would all be smiling now. You’ve got to steal at least one win to win a tourney, IMO.

2) Veteran players often get pissed off if they feel they are being slighted or disrespected, or if it appears that they will not be chosen for the team or play a key role. The KEY is for the coach to be decisive, to make some personnel decisions early–and hope your decisions are right. There will ALWAYS be second-guessing by former coaches, fans, media, players–but be decisive, be truthful with the players and if handled properly these tricky personnel decisions won’t affect the players who ARE chosen. My feeling is that the earlier a coach can decide on which players he thinks are best, the better.

3) Yes, Holland’s back four needs improving–but so does the midfield, which still isn’t top flight. It’s better because of Sneijder’s development, but the Dutch need another stud in midfield to go with him.

4) Alaa: Robben may be a more interesting /person/ than Ronaldo, but he’s certainly not a more interesting player–not even close. Ronaldo scored more than 30 goals in the EPL; Robben could not score half that many. He has great pace but I don’t see the all-around skills–and then on top of that he is ALWAYS hurt. The Dutch with a great opportunity in this Euro, and he can’t play!

Posted from  United States

We all respect Russia and the way they played. They played the way we should have played because they have a coach who will never quit attacking, in the other hand we had a coach scared of Russia’s powerful counter-attacks who decided to defend hoping for our counter-attack, this strategy just killed us. We have played against France, Italy, Brazil, etc… before and always decided to dominate the posession of the ball in order to attack and now that we face Russia Marco decides to wait on our own half. Against Italy and France you could see Ruud and our 3 offensive midfielders pressing their defense in order to get the ball back and attack again but against Russia we were only spectators which really frustrated me. What an stupid strategy!!!.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=550487&root=euro2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos3&cc=3888

“To everyone’s surprise the Dutch only started pressuring on the halfway line instead of almost into the opponent’s penalty box, like they had done in the first two games.”

@alaa: I agree with you about Robben. At least Robben will always try something different and has the speed to open up spaces. Babel was other option to do this, it was a shame having him injured but come on if you know Babel is injured and you know that Robben gets injured very often why not calling Drenthe!!!. In my opinion he wasn’t ready for the starting position, of course, but as a substitute he might have been an important player, during Holland’s U-21 tournament he was even more important than Babel!!!. But these are no excuses for the way we played, we had the players to win against Russia but Marco’s strategy was lame and the players lack of passion was sad and frustrating to see as a fan.

Injustice doesn’t take a vacation during sporting events. We can all take pride that South Africa was barred from the Olympics during the apartheid era. We can all take pride that Yugoslavia was barred from the Euro tournament during the genocide there.

Right now, Morgan Tsvangirai is holed up in the Dutch embassy in Zimbabwe. He is there so he will not be harmed by the Zimbabwean security forces. We thank the Dutch for their protection of this man, and repeat our call to boycott the 2010 World Cup. http://zimsolidarity.blogspot.com/

Posted from  United States

@Timba,
if he wasn’t 84 years old, Oranje could use Mugabe in midfield right now

Posted from  United States

Finn, check the archive of posts and key in Persie as a search. You’ll find some posts reflecting on his spoiled brat behaviour. I think the post was published in June, so you don’t have to go back too far.

Do other teams have the problems between players and coaches like we do? All I ever seem to hear in the media is the history of the dutch and arguments between coaches and players. We can’t be the only team with this issue?

Also I’m not defending everything Persie does but from what I’ve read and heard Van Marwijk also had his fair share of attitude in their conflict. I don’t know it always seems so easy for us to comment on others without knowing the whole story.

..if only England would’ve qualified, then we surely would’ve made it. No pesky Russians to outplay us, lol..

Posted from  Netherlands

Jess, I think the Italians aren’t too happy with Donadoni if I look at Pirlo’s comments after the Dutch game. And the French are most certainly not content with Domenech…

But the Dutch have a reputation of 1) always having an opinion about everything and 2) thinking the whole world wants to hear it.

That’s why this blog is doing so well

JC once said: I rather work with Spanish players than Dutch players. If you tell the players to do something, Dutch players will always respond with “yes, but…”.

In Spain, they call the coach “mister” in Holland they call their coach “Marco” or “Guus” or “Frank”.

I remember the Germans (the press) reacting to Holland’s criticism on Marco right after we qualified. They said something like: in Germany any coach that qualifies for a big tourney has done well and is praised. Only in Holland coaches who do that are being criticized…

Great blog guys! Learn a lot from you already-living in America for last fifteen years lost touch with world of football. But Euro 08 brought back my love to this game. Thanks to Holland for 3 beautiful games and thanks to oranje fans,who took defeat painfully,but with dignity and grace. My total respect to you. I always been huge fan of THE WAY HOLLAND PLAYS FOOTBALL. I always cheered for you,when russians was out. It’s just a shame what it’s very hard to win tournament,playing total,attacking football every game. You have to be in perfect mental and physical condition;have a great coach,who can prepare team the right way for every opponent and adjust if something goes wrong;have very strong leader to ignite team if team out of spark. So much more right things have to fall in place,than for defensive italians or machine-like germans. Question is would you accept to win their way? I think answer is simple- you want to win Beautifull Holland Way! Pain will subside, hope will rise again and your time will come, I promise, just because beautifull things visits us once in awhile after all. And you know what-You guys already won, because you smart, faithfull and loving your nation fans! Good luck and Believe!

@Alexander Petersburg:
re. if we want to win via “defensive Italians or machine-like Germans” …..

As an Oranje fan, even if I say I want the Oranje to win at any cost, I don’t think the Oranje can win that way. In 20 or so years I have followed this team, there was never an occasion that we play in “negative” or “boring” ways. The closest to this was probably that ugly match against Portugal in the last WC 2006. Even with the mediocre squad and result that year, we still showed some flash of geniuses in the match against fellow orange Ivory Coast and Serbia/Montenegro (remember Robben’s sprint, dribble and score run?)

When Ruud equalized in the 80+ mins. against Russia, my German friend called me, “dude, what’s wrong with the way your team is playing? They play ugly, I know they’ll win at the end”. I told him, “we’re learning to win ugly, just like your team is good at”. At that time, I was 99% convinced that we would win the match and FINALLY, we can win ugly. But how wrong was I? The Oranje is just not shaped this way, I don’t think.

So, I really hope this “mental” aspect will be addressed by van Warwijk. One team that we probably should pattern our team on is Brazil …. they are now playing a bit more “rational” but still look like they are having fun, attacking and being creative; plus looks like they managed to be strong and have a champion mentality (they also managed to beat us in PKs against one of our best squads in WC 1998). This differentiates their style than Germany or the rougher style of Argentina or for that matter, the Oranje.

As I have posted last night, I still believe that Holland is blessed with non-stop supply of technically gifted players – to contrast, we have van Persie and Robben, the Germans have Neuville and Mario Gomez (*YUCK*) – but I am rather convinced that while van Persie and Robben give 90-95% each match, Neuville or Gomez will give their 110+%. This is the main factor that makes the difference …. again, these are all personal theories I came up with.

To answer this thread title “How do we feel now” ….. I still feel gutted and depressed 3 days after that ill-fated Saturday. I can pretend outside that I’m still interested in this tourney and discuss the tourney with my friends/co-workers, but inside, I really do not care. I only care to read the progress of the Oranje squad’s preparation for WC 2010 qualifiers and see their result. This blog and passionate discussions of the Oranje by the fans actually is one cure for the pain.

–H

Watching Turkey playing against Germany, I got more sick …… of the lack of fighting spirit of the Oranje.

–H

Posted from  United States

Turkey played great football but forgot to finish the Germans off. The bloody Germans nicked it again in the dying minutes &^($%#@…

You SUCK so much.
I know why this site is full of hatred and racism, because it’s seeded by you “official authors” day-to-day.

Posted from  Australia

Huh? Johnny? Is it you? Too much wino again?

How do we suck? How do we seed racism again?

Please enlighten us my friend…

Article from UEFA.com.

As a hater of the German team, I’m gradually gathering respect for these guys. This “winning mentality” that Jogi talked about is exactly what jong Oranje need if we want to take it to the next level. As much as it pains me to compliment the Gerries, it is obvious that we have to learn from them in this “mental” department.

I told my German buddy when we watched this match during lunch at the first half, “dude, this has Russia – Holland written all over ….. your team looks like they are in deep trouble ……” He couldn’t even look at the TV screens in some of the Turk’s attacking sequence. I was pretty much convinced Germany was going to lose. Obviously I was wrong.

–H

*****

Löw hails ‘winning mentality’
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tournament/matches/match=301697/report=rw.html#low+hails+winning+mentality

Joachim Löw praised Germany’s winning mentality after they produced a 3-2 victory from a UEFA EURO 2008™ semi-final which at times looked to be slipping away from them. Turkey’s Fatih Terim, meanwhile, could only applaude the efforts of a team he described as being the “most colourful in the tournament”.

Joachim Löw, Germany coach
We are absolutely delighted to have won this semi-final – an incredible feeling. The players themselves are thrilled to have won a game like that. It was a fantastic fight, a great drama, and with the late goals it had everything. After conceding their second goal, we were strong enough mentally to come back and it was an excellent move that resulted in the third goal. It was hard to take conceding at 2-2, but it was a clear sign of our strength of character that we then produced an excellent attack and a brilliant finish. I think we played very well, and I also think they played very well. Technically they are excellent and there were spells in the match where we struggled. It was difficult, but we were clinical and scored three goals which made the difference, from fewer chances than against Portugal in the quarter-final. We showed a winning mentality. Early on, we gave the ball away easily and lost our rhythm. They kept possession well and we ended up hitting long balls. Second half, we might have benefited from a second striker to help keep the ball up front, but the five midfielders were important as they stopped us from being overrun – because Turkey passed the ball really well through midfield. I coached in Turkey and I know that once they get into the groove in a game or in a competition, they are hard to stop. They have great enthusiasm and are fantastic technically. We were worried, but we were lucky to score in the 90th minute. Congratulations to Turkey for a fantastic show.

Fatih Terim, Turkey coach
It has always been important for me to have a team who enjoy what they are doing, who are creative and who score goals. Maybe we haven’t always been so exciting in this championship, but today we had it all. I told the players in the dressing room that I am very proud of them. We are leaving as the most colourful team in the tournament, having very nearly made it to the final. If the game had gone to extra time, I think we would have been attacking them again and things would have been different. But unfortunately we suffer from giving away easy goals. These things happen in football – you don’t always score, you sometimes concede. I think we were the better side, though, and we have reminded people about Turkey. We were full of energy, which really pleased me, and despite having a young side we showed great spirit when things went against us. Germany are a good team, they are formidable opponents and I wish them luck in the final. But, more than anything, I am proud of my players for showing the world what good players they are.

HedonistiX – you are absolutely right about the winning mentality. We don’t have it, and we need it. The Germans have it, and the Turks showed how hard they can fight. If we get that (or get a coach that can instill that into our boys) we can finally win something!

Posted from  Canada

our friends are in big trouble!
humiliated by classy spanniards
all Guus deliver is just to oust his mother team.

Posted from  Australia

I am starting to think that Guus is a “semi final specialist” coach …
WC 1998 (Oranje), WC 2002 (Korea) and this EC (Russia).

I only watched the first half live, taping the 2nd half …. without wanting to sound gloating or condescending to the Russian fans, it’s obvious that Russia was a class below Spain. Our Oranje must have really stinked on that unfortunate Saturday.

–H

Posted from  United States