I do realize however, that I haven’t seen the game a second time. I would like to. In the spur of the moment, when you are “with the team” you lose perspective. I wonder if what I remember from the game is really the way it was. I was shellshocked. Like Goose said, after 7 minutes I knew this was going to and badly…

As for your statement, I didn’t read where you said ‘Guus’ team knew how to take advantage of it’. Because that sounds an awful lot like tactics. You said the main reason they lost was due to mental/psychological factors.

Your statement is: Holland lost because Guus’ tactics stopped Holland from playing their game and Russia made Holland perform under-par?

My statement is: Holland played poorly due to mental/psychological external factors and Guus’ team knew how to take advantage of it…

Is that correct?

They failed to execute their tactics because Russia had a better one against ours. That IS a failure in tactics. You need to take in account of that fact: we’re not the only ones with tactics. And clearly, our tactics didn’t hold up against what Guus hiddink prepared for us.

‘I don’t think Boulah’s tragedy is an excuse and I also don’t think there is something wrong with someone’s mentality when he can’t play 100% due to certain external circumstances.’

No, there’s nothing wrong with that and that’s not the point of this discussion.

‘Maybe GD has never played sports at a high level, or any other performance for that matter. If you play top level (sports, ballet, music, circus arts, whatever) and you can’t get to 100%, let’s say you can only reach 95%, than you’re in throuble. It’s that easy.’

It’s even easier to say it. You think achieving 100% happens often? When you’re dealing with a team play of 11 players, few things are ever 100%. You think Robben/Van Persie felt 100% comfortable against Italy? They just came out of a recovery period, and I’m pretty sure Van Persie literally said he wasn’t 100% before/at the game. You thought Boulah was 100% comfortable vs Italy? After not having played so long? You think the other players felt 100% with their own state and their tactics before fighting Italy? With recently recovered teammates and teammates who haven’t played in a long time among their midst? With new guy Engelaar? You think ANY of them felt 100%? They NEVER are 100%. Before and during, 100% is not possible, maybe for a few moments, or when they’re way ahead. But 100% at the start of a game? That’s never going to happen. There’s always something.

‘You go out there and try to do your best.’

Exactly, and that is what they did, mostly. They weren’t doing some silly comparison like “what is this game compared to losing a kid?”. They were like “we lost something dear to us, but life goes on, and now this game is important”.

Hahahahaha…

Igor, I couldn’t have said it better. I was reading GD’s post and it struck me that maybe our difference of opinion has to do with the way we define stuff.
To me, tactics is the gameplan a coach designs for his team for a given match. If the team fails to execute this, to me, the tactics didn’t fail, but the players failed to execute the tactics.

I don’t think Boulah’s tragedy is an excuse and I also don’t think there is something wrong with someone’s mentality when he can’t play 100% due to certain external circumstances.

Maybe GD has never played sports at a high level, or any other performance for that matter. If you play top level (sports, ballet, music, circus arts, whatever) and you can’t get to 100%, let’s say you can only reach 95%, than you’re in throuble. It’s that easy.

We’re talking mental stuff here, sure, but mentality is not the same thing.

A lot of great players for instance, are superstitious. When JC once couldn’t find his gum before a match (which he would spit out while walking on the pitch in order to kick it on the opponents’ half!), he wouldn’t feel secure. That would stick during the match. The man said so himself.

If you’re an athlete and you’ve been working towards a certain sports-event for two years, you can’t even contemplate throwing the towel before a game because something dreadful happened. How would we have felt – and commetned here – if the Dutch team would have retracted from the EC? Boulah and wife would have felt guilty for the rest of their lives and all the football fans in the world would have punished us for it. That was never an option.

You go out there and try to do your best.

Oh, about the comparing losing a child and playing sports being not comparable… It’s about the effect something has on the capability of a sportsman to deliver. Football is played with the brain. More than anything else. Do you think Fabregas is the fastest player? He isn’t. Is he the strongest? No. Does he have the hardest shot? I don’t think so. Is he the most fit? No… For all I know, maybe his technical skills aren’t even the best of all players. It’s his brain! The ability to see solutions quicker than others and the ability to let his feet execute what his brains wants them to do. So, my friend, anything that happens in life that would effect the way a player feels is relevant. What he eats. The health of his dog, the underpants he wears, the weather, etc. Some things can be controlled by the manager. Other things can’t be.

I am going to stop this discussion for now, unless GD comes back with interesting new viewpoints.

im pretty sure that we would have beaten Russia if the players had the form they had in the Italy game; regardless of tactics or even apponents,
i dont think Gio could have been stopped by the russians if he had his Italia form (and yes i know he had lots of space in that game)

i reckon we played the long balls not cause pretended to be english but cause on the day we didnt have the quality/ form to play any other way

and the most likely reason for the total loss of form has to be the Boula story; any parent on this blog will tell you its impact has to be unimaginable; i reckon Boula and his wife should have left the group to grieve as a family

What the spanish did and what we should have done was to (1) take control of the game, instead of givin up the initiative and hope to counter and (2) play using the space out wide on the wings but keep the team compact in the length (use the full backs on the overlap, move the ball up with short passes and do not always pass the ball to your lone striker if he is covered by at least two defender…logically, someone else should be wide open if thats the case, i mean come on, if they are double teaming ruud van gol and gio don’t you think that someone other boulah is also left unmarked?)

other than that i just want to point out that the spanish played with the same system as the dutch for the majority of the match due to villa going off injured (in the ~30 minute?) and they brought on cesc. senna and either xavi or alonso were in holding roles while cesc was the free man but often changing position with silva and iniesta. so we can’t blame the 4-2-3-1 for our loss maybe only the way we decided to play in that formation. lastly, i would imagine that if Guus had targeted someone to mark tightly to prevent the buildup from the back it would have been Ramos, yet he still managed to get involved in the attack a lot. now i know ramos is a little more dynamic than gio and is younger but still, i don’t buy that the reason we lost is because Guus had a stroke of genius and decided to close gio down. Plus, even when our fullbacks were overlaping the mids were too busy trying to take on the entire russian defense to notice and give them the ball (esp affelay and van persie). Oranje has more than enough skill to work their way through tightly organized team like the russian if they play to their strengths but unfortunately we forgot to do just that and instead pretended we were English.

This has nothing to do with professionalism. I am a CEO of a business. If someone lost a child in my company, I would send them home immediately and put them on leave. I don’t care how much they would beg to stay. Everyone needs time on their own to deal with these issues. If anything, I blame MVB for not doing the same. Boula is a hero, but he was indeed a distraction and he should have been sent home. MVB’s people skills again.