Fave Players of the Past (the list of the Now will come later)

My unofficial tally says that Bergkamp is still dominating with a whopping 57 points, followed by Cruijff with 29, and van Basten with 25. Overmars and Cocu are tied for 4th with 13, and Davids has pushed his way to fifth with 11.

Posted from  Canada

That means that people like Bergkamp more than Cruijff and van Basten combined.

Posted from  Canada

Jan another guy you should have on there is Reiziger, though most people have already voted, and i don’t think many people would vote for him.

Posted from  Canada

Interesting tally so far… I can see the point with Reiziger, but in my recollection, most of my friends never warmed up to him. He didn’t look like the cool sports hero and although he was great and loyal and all, he was also a bit of woosh, if you know what I mean. Didn’t come across to good in interviews and made some big mistakes in big games…

I think JC didn’t score high coz most bloggers here haven’t seen him play. That’s fair enough. Makes me feel old though.

And Bassie must have ruined his chances here due to his managership . I remember before Marco came back to football people regarded him as some demi-God. Reclusive, mysterious… Now he’s shown he is only human and he drops in the stsndings . A warning for Dennis. We all love him now and in three years he’ll be Oranje’s team manager and will fail to qualify for the EC12, look at the remarks then hahahaha…

Let’s keep this going a bit more!

Posted from  Australia

I actually misread the post… fav players and not ‘ the best’ players.. haha

Very nice to see so many of you went for Cocu… a real unsong hero (not unsong here on this blog)

im not really sure if im happy with Bergkamp coming back as a manager….Jan is rigth; look at vBasten, he surely lost some of his past glory due to his lack of manager skills

Posted from  Netherlands

Yeah, but I do believe Dennis will limit himself to youth. At least, that’s what I think.

Cocu is interesting indeed. Started at AZ as a youthful left winger. Was always mentioned in the press – even when at Vitesse – as lacklustre. Didn’t work hard. Had total off days. Etc. And then he left for PSV and became this hard working, alert, switched-on midfielder. One of the hardest and smartest “workers” in the game and with the skills to play winger, midfielder, striker and libero. Who can beat that today? Maybe only Van Persie…

Posted from  Australia

@Jan; … Cocu started his footballing at DCS Zevenaar (as a pupil) i know this cause my mothers family is from Zevenaar and all my oncles worked for this club… when Cocu started playing one of my oncles was the clubs chairman….. my mother actually remembers Cocu playing as a little boy

think he really learned at Barca…. kind of player you miss when hes gone…i never gave him the credits he deserved while he was still playing

Think Cocu would be manager-material (unlike Dennis), hope youre right about him limiting himself….thank God for his fear of flying!! haha

Posted from  Netherlands

Jan: you have not put clarence seedorf on the list. he hasn’t done his best at the oranje level but at the club level he’s one of the all time best dutch player. strange. actually i voted for the “best” not for my favs. difficult because i have always had my fav dutch players – cruijff,neeskens,krol,haan – rijkaard,gullit,van basten,koeman – davids,kluivert,seedorf,bergkamp,cocu – not easy to be objective and pick up two of them. i think johan and marco are evident. 3 goldan balls each. but the others. guess there is a generation gap too. all of us who have seen cruijff…

Posted from  Hungary

i mean johan cruijff is the quintessence of dutch football,dutch football philosophy. we cannot measure his importance in the evolution of the game because it is unmeasurable. the others were super,world class,etc players. but cruijff was the rovolution . he has changed the way football is played for ever. (johan and rinus together – they put holland on the world football map.)

Posted from  Hungary

Ferenc, I think that the reason seedorf is not listed is because this list does not include active players…and I agree with you on Cruijff, when i had to pick three fav players, it felt really weird not choosing Cruijff but at the same time I would have felt like an impostor a little bit if I had picked him even though i’ve never seen him play–except on some highlight videos on the net ofcourse (although i’ve watched quite a few of those!).

Posted from  Canada

agreed Ferenc; Cruijff is STILL the most importent person in dutch football… think Jan can comment better on the total change he brought to dutch football

best:
1. Cruijff
2. vBasten
3. Gullit

fav:
1. Bergkamp

2. vVossen
3. Overmars

Posted from  Netherlands

btw; some interesting news on Cruijff today; His old pal Rexacsz (??his old teammate at Barca and his later assistant) wrote a book and in that book he blames Cruijffs wife Danny for Johan not going to the WC78…Cruijff was angry and gave an interview on catalan radio…he told the journalst that he did not go to the WC78 because he didnt want to be away from home for a long period of time. The reason beeing that in Barcelona in 1977 he was victem of a robbary…his wife Danny was tied up and one of the burglers pointed a shotgun to Johans head!! his kids were home also!! after that he didnt want to leave his family alone anymore…
i never heared that story, i always blamed Danny aswel, tought it was cause of the ’swimmingpool affair’ in 74…guess i was wrong…

Posted from  Netherlands

1. Bergkamp
2. Overmars
3. Stam

Posted from  Canada

here’s a link to that story about Cruijff’s house being robbed that Goose was talking about:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=526349&cc=5901

Posted from  Canada

Very interesting Igor and Goose! I never heard that story either! That bloody burglar has a lot to account for then…. Unbelievable. That could be a movie script!

I do think that objectively JC is the best ever, I even believe he was the best of the world. I’ve seen Pele, JC, Charlton, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Zico, Maradona play. I am that old . I haven’t seen Lenstra and Wilkes though, so I am not THAT old, ok?

Pele was more of the Gullit calibre and Maradona was super, but more an individualist. JC was more a strategist with exceptional individual skills as well. JC changed the game, Pele and Mara didn’t so much.

But, as most have pointed out, it’s hard to pick a player whom you’ve never seen play. I accept that totally. I’ve seen Zidane come as a youngster at Bordeaux (with Witschge) but I don’t believe 10 year olds now will rave about Zizou in the future on the basis of some YouTube clips. You really have to watch these type of players in full games for a period of time to appreciate their value.

Posted from  Australia

Re: Jan
New Cocu? I think Afelley has many of the raw characteristics that Cocu had, and if they are developed the way we hope, I think he can be the next Phillip. He did work with him for one or two years at PSV, and now Cocu will be one of his coaches, so hopefully Coco can make a “Mini Me” out of Ibrihim. haha.

Posted from  Republic Of Korea

favs:

cruijff
rijkaard
davids
(seedorf)

Posted from  Hungary

@Bruce; Affelay the new Cocu?? dont think he is…very different players…Affelay is much more an attacking player doenst come close to the defensive qualities that Cocu had….his fysiek isnt great also

Cocu had great vision wich allowed hom to play great at any position…back, midfield, striker…he could play it all….Affelay is just a very talented left-right midfielder….hes not even close

on skills Affelay is prob. the greatest talent we have at the moment…as a complete players he has much to learn

Posted from  Netherlands

Ya, you’re right, it is far fetched at the moment, but as Jan said, Cocu began as a skilled one way player, and grew into a intelligent total footballer. I think Afelley has the skill and now he needs mentors such as Cocu and de Boer to shape him into a total footballer. He can be Goose! He’s not yet, but I think he can be, which would be great for Oranje because we have enough quick, skilled wingers…

Posted from  Republic Of Korea

I tend to agree with Bruce. Given the right support and mentality, Afellay could have more in him than “just” the talented midfielder. As would Robin van Persie by the way. Hard worker, speed, good lungs, great vision…

A coach with balls would try out Van Persie as last man (libero) with the freedom to move forward a la Gullit at PSV. How sensational would that be?

Oranje 2010

Stekelenburg

Kromkamp Marcellis Van Persie De Cler

De Zeeuw Schaars

Van der Vaart Sneijder Afellay

Huntelaar

Posted from  Australia

Wow, I like your crystal ball there Jan. Although I’d replace Schaars or de Zeeuw with van Bommel. Also, I think van Persie is too crucial to our attack to have as a libero. I think someone who is more defensive such as Sneijder or Afelley (but has an impressive attacking repetoire as well) would be better suited as a libero. I also this Velthuizen could have a good chance as the number one goalkeeper, if not at WK2010, then at EK2012.

Posted from  Republic Of Korea

Jan!! are you mad?? haha … vPersie as a defender?? maybe in 2050!!

still dont think Affelay has it in him to become a player like Cocu…remember; you need to sacrofice everything for the team…dont think Affelay is that kind of a person…think he really likes himself…..

the only midfielders i see playing as libero’s are; deZeeuw, Schaars, vBommel……. vdVaart(who btw has really lost his form at HSV, he hasnt scored in 10 games!), Sneijder are all too small

Velthuisen is one great talent but i think that at the moment Stekelenburg is the one who will replace vdSar

Posted from  Netherlands

I know it’s a weird thought and Van Persie is awesome up front, but look at that situation with Gullit: a striker at Haarlem, a striker at Feyenoord and when he played libero at PSV – because they were so strong – he could come from behind with his big runs and contribute enormously. His charisma and vision helped him to organize the back line etc etc.

I think Van Persie also has those lungs and that vision. Maybe now it’s too soon, but I’m sure he could do well in the back. Mind you, not defending as such, but to guide the team forward.

JC always said that Van Basten’s best performances would come when he would move back a line, from striker to midfield as a playmaker. JC said Marco should do that around his 30est. He never made it that far of course. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t intend to suggest we play Van Persie as libero now. And yes, of course Bommel instead of Zeeuw or Schaars. What was I thinking?

Posted from  Australia

Ruud always had his amazing fysiek (dont know the english word)…just look at how much vPersie is injured,,,he doenst seem to be very strong like Ruud who could run up and down the pitch for 90 minutes

Posted from  Netherlands

True….maybe it’ a dumb idea. Physique is the word by the way….

Posted from  Australia