Weekend Action… Ajax impresses, Feyenoord disappoints.

I agree with Jan on the continuity but also agree with Lucas about taking a group of 23 players to win the WC. No team can win with a starting 11 or 13 as BVM and most of the previous coaches (including MVB, Rijkaard, Advocaat) have done in the past. The Eredivisie is certainly good enough in terms of its ability to produce tons of talented players. Eventually we all hope that this will translate into a major victory. But talent is not enough and it is the mentality that wins big tournaments. And this is where we really need help. It should be in every player’s mind that the outcome is not in doubt (i.e. winning of course) and the belief that it is achievable.

Posted from  United States

Jan – Go easy on VVV! My boys from The Pit are up to 10′th. Not bad for a tiny provincial squad! Just hope Honda stays the whole season!

sonneveld – ooijer??? everything i have seen says his level has dropped considerably at PSV this season. I think his days are done!

@tiju ,
enjoy your time bro

I agree with sonneveld , eredivisie is two steps behind the oranje , but yeah .. there are many good players who can tolerate with difference , de zeeuw , opdam (AZ – WC 2006 QUALIFICATIONS , bouma & arjen robben (PSV – EC 2004 ) , and i think emanuelson and vlaar can play for oranje , meanwhile , schaars still can’t find himself when it comes to oranje , though he’s one of the best midfeilders in the eredivisie , afellay is the same . sneijder was one of our worst players in WC 2006 . Actually , i still can’t get it .
GOAL.COM has made a list of the best 10 players who never won ballon d’or since 1995 , but they didn’t mention bergkamp . ridiculous , eh ?

@Tiju:

Enjoy your time there. Hopefully we will have u back soon.

@My friends:

About the comments about Eredivisie level that is clearly lower than the best leagues in Europe, let´s not forget the great players that have played there. And it´s not a league that produced great talents in just a specific frame of time because it still has produced great players like Sneijder, Van Persie, Robben just to mention a few of them and now Afellay, Schaars, Vlaar, Suárez, Ruiz among many others. Of course not all of them will make it in a top club such as Barcelona or Milan but the Eredivisie allow the players to play freely and exploid all their skills so that when they go to a bigger club their game has been well developed. That´s why players like Drenthe struggle so much of leaving so early the Eredivisie, because they haven´t developed their game properly and then they are playing with the very best and they are simply not ready for it. But players from the Eredivisie can add value to Oranje. In France 1998, many players still played in Holland and then they went abroad and proved their value worldwide once again-Although some of them were mature players, I reckon-. Do not discard Eredivisie players guys. By the way, De Zeeuw scored two beautys the other day…this guy is playing better everyday.

@ Jeff, Our current U-21 squad, and potentials are at least equal of our 2006 EC winners, if not better. In fact I think it’s a brilliant generation coming up.

Krul, Pieters, Bruma, Anita, Fer, Janmaat, V.Aanholt, Falkenburg, Viergever, Barazite, Wijnaldum, Strootman, V.Wolfswinkel, Biseswar, Donald, V.d.Heijden, V.d.Maarel, De Jong.

BTW I heard a rumour that FC Twente might sell centre back Douglas pretty soon, that would mean the end of everything about him getting a Dutch passport and possibly playing for oranje.

Posted from  Netherlands

@alex ,
i hope he can stay till the end of this season , he will be amazing for holland .
we need to build up a new defense line after the WC .
vlaar , douglas , brama , pieters , donk , zuiverloon , v.d.weil , tiendalli , van aanholt .( may be mercellis & janmaat ).

and a new attacking line ,
luc castaignos , jermain lens and barazite ( with van persie of course )

we can continue with our current midfeilders , sneijder , V.D.V ( C ) , afellay , de jong , bakkal , schaars and de zeeuw . Just we will add fer , brama or de guzman to the group .
Robben elia ( we can add emnes , wijnaldum and biseswar ) .
OMG , we’re going to have a killer team

@Alex, I totally agree with you and precisely what I said a few days ago. This new generation should go very very far.

Posted from  United States

@ Lucas and others: I’m not knocking the Eredivisie. It’s a perfect competition for players to develop and players like Ronaldo, Romario, Diarra, Ibrahimovic, Suarez came to Holland just for that. I’m just saying that if Urby plays well as left bank at Ajax it doesn’t mean we can simply use him as LB in Oranje as well.

I agree with the experimienting and comments about “you need 22 players to win a tournament”. I think I’ve said that before too.

I think the problem is, that we don’t have lots of central strikers to play around with. And we don’t have a lot of left backs. I don’t think Drenthe and / or Urby have proven their metal on those spots. I think Bert sees Urby as a creative midfielder (which he is).

We do have heaps of creative midfielders and with Bakkal, Elia, Afellay, De Zeeuw, and De Guzman ( selected but now injured) I suppose we have enough back-up for Robben, Vaart, Sneijder, Kuyt, Vsn Persie.

The bigger issues are center back and right bank I guess. Bert tested Loovens and appears to be happy. I think Heitinga did ok. Vlaar will come into play soon. I’m not sure how Zuiverloon is doing but I can imagine he could be interesting or RB.

but players like Fer, Kiipers, Drenthe, Anita, Wolfwinkel etc etc are simply not there yet.

orange doesn’t need douglas. portugal have many brazilians and they still struggle to beat top team.

Posted from  United States

We missed [Wesley] Sneijder much more than they missed those two players.”

Maybe we missed Sneijder. In terms of ball possession, Wesley thinks quicker than the others. He knows how to play under pressure, he thinks with his back to goal, so he can be compared to players like Messi or Xavi in his way of pressing. But after a defeat that leaves no doubts, I don’t like talking about Sneijder, who didn’t play
Mourinho

I hope Inter qualifies so I can watch Wesley Sneijder more often.

I think Sneijder can be compared with Xavi. Believe me.

What Holland missing is the deadly striker. The only “world class” striker left is Van Persie who is currenly injured. I hope that Huntelaar will regain his form.

Posted from  Indonesia

We have been harping on our defense for about 6 months and change.

However, I may be wrong and you all can correct me, but I can not for the life of me remember an Oranje team in a major tournament season so lacking depth in the striker department.

VanPersie is the only one that stands out, but he is injured and one could argue that he never was a “real” striker in the first place.

Holland has always been about attack and right now we have a very dodgy attack, a very strong midfield, but a dodgy defense.

That neeeds to pick up a bit before WC2010

Finn, Luckily Van Nistelrooy has said he wants to play at the World Cup

We are weak in depth but with V Nistelrooy and V Persie I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I can also Huntelaar regaining form again because I still think he is better than Inzaghi and Borriello(who is injury prone).

Re Strikere in Oranje: In between 96-2000 at WC and EC at times we used Cocu and Ronald de Boer as strikers as we had no depth in that department as well. It will sort itself out. We mainly played 4-4-2 then. Bergkamp n Kluivert played very seldom together – pity as they toyed with Argentina in 98.

Posted from  Singapore

@ferenc – Actualy the new one is much nicer and you can see the pics on the website. Think Finn should have taken a share though !! See you in January. We have 3 very reasonable hotels almost all next door to us. a 3 star, a boutique, and a backpackers.

Posted from  Singapore

@Carlos: You gave me about 2 days notice! Have you ever heard of due diligence

Hey, I may have to do my next wedding in Singa (I know, it makes me sound like Liz Talyor although I am actually only on the way to my second…and the deal isn’t even closed yet..) or at least the honeymoon could swing by. I would love to take her to Asia as she has never even been outside the US so a bit of a culture shock would do her well.

I need those chili crabs very badly though

Well folks, here it is… my biggest pet peeve is reading about how second rate the eredivisie is. The media is to blame for this for the most part.
Today i watched AZ Alkmaar completely outplay a very game Olympiakos (who on their day is a very fine side). That same AZ played Arsenal to draw. Two years earlier, PSV knocked Arsenal out of the champions league in the knockout stage. Twente plays competitive football all of a sudden and competes (yes competes) against European sides with ridulous funds and rediculous debt loads.
Ajax is well Ajax and one day when the primadonas over there learn to fight, they will get back to European glory. They knocked off Fiorentina last year (or did we forget)
The way I see it Eredivisie teams are not second tier… they are under-rated if anything. Lets get behind them so they can start embarrassing some teams again.
Oranje on another note, will go all the way in 2010 with the line up they have (including Ruud) if they can get over their fear of success. Personally if I have to hear one more dutch person use the “we’re only a small country” line again – I may vomit (this is the biggest self-defeatest load of crap I have ever heard). True… you’re a small country comprised of the best footballers in the world now shut the f up and win a freakin tournament!

Posted from  Canada

Wow, De Zeeuw’s second goal was sweet! Too bad he doesn’t get as much opportunity for attacking while in Oranje, but the formation is completely different as Dirk already mentioned.

about emanuelson-
I think you could consider emanuelson as a potential player for oranje for the WC, but most likely not as a left back. If you have been watching most ajax games over the last few years than you will notice that he has just started to thrive and play well as an attacking player, not as a left back. He excels at offense not defense. So, if one of our more prominent bench players get hurt, say affelay or elia (compared to urby’s level of play) than I think that after them the next player called up should be urby. And although it is “just” the eredivise as some have said, he still has played quite well in the europa league and against PSV and most notably in the Feyenoord game.

Posted from  United States

Agree with you Marc… I do see Urby as a potential Oranje player but simply not as a left back. And yes, he does have some players in front of him, but things can change quickly. A year ago, who had heard of Elia, apart from Goose?

The “small country” argument in my view is more a positive thing and shouldn’t be used as an excuse, but as a affirmation that we are actually “better than the rest” kinda thing.

Something to be proud of instead of an excuse to fail!

Finn, yes it’s shocking how we suddenly don’t have strikers! Ruud is still out there (but at what level is he now?). Vennegoor warms the bench at Hull. Koevermans is a pinchhitter type striker, but slow. Yet strong. And he’s returning to PSV soon.

The youngsters are too young and inexperienced, I’d say…

Where’s the time we had Kieft, Van Basten, Houtman, Bosman…

But with all those fab midfielders, let’s give Van Persie a go, with either Hunter or Ruud behind him. I have not written Huntelaar off.

If Van Persie would get injured for the WC, we might be in a spot of bother, though…

Urby IS NOT a left back. He just isn’t. Decent attacking left-sided mf. That’s it. Not Oranje material, at least not at the back.

Looking at other teams, who does England have besides Rooney? If he gets injured, is England done? What about Italy, Portugal or Germany? The only team with depth in attack is Spain, but is their defense full proof? Look at how the US tore them apart. We are still deep in attack, I would not worry too much. I know we had 3 0-0 in a row but better to save the goals for when it matters most.
@Jason, I agree with you. This is waht I keep saying. It is all a mental issue with the Dutch.

Posted from  United States

When you think a little creative, we do have quite a lot of striking options besides V.Persie when he gets back.
Kuyt is out of the question for me, I think he’s a mediocre striker, in fact my sympathy for Kuyt is fading with every one of his Liverpool and oranje match.
V.Nistelrooij(though injured on and off)
Huntelaar(though making 0 minutes, 0 goals)
Babel(very low on playing time and good performances)
Elia can play as a striker if he has to, no garantuee for succes though.
Jeremain Lens, if he keeps his recent form, he can be an emergency choice V.Wolfswinkel, doubtful if he’ll be able to keep up though
V.d.Vaart could even play as a central striker
Bakkal has played as a striker before
Plus De Zeeuw showed he can score like a striker

I have to correct you about England, cause Defoe is horrific to play against for a defence. When Owen is ever fit he occasionally does good magnificent things. Darren Bent, Agbonlahor, Carlton Cole, all good for 6 or more goals in PL so far.

Posted from  Netherlands

@ jeff
in term of strikers, more than orange.

enland: rooney, defoe, agbonlahor, walcott, crouch, bent, heskey, cole, and owen.
germany: klose, gomez, podolski, kiessling, hunt, muller, schlaudraff, helmes, schieber, and kuranyi.
italy: gilardino, di natale, quagliarella, rossi, pazzini, iaquinta, borriello, palladino, cassano, miccoli, rocchi, macheda, and balotelli.
brazil: fabiano, nilmar, robinho, pato, alecsandro, hulk, tardelli, adriano, amauri, edgar, and ronaldo.
argentina: higuain, lavezzi, tevez, palacio, barrios, cavenaghi, palermo lopez, aguero, zarate, denis, milito saviola, and crespo.

Posted from  United States