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Van Marwijk’s shadow list of potentials.

November 6th, 2009 | By: Jan | 40 Comments »

vlaar

Team manager Bert van Marwijk confirmed he uses a shadow list for potential Oranje players at last Friday’s press conference in Zeist. The coach refused to publish the list, though. “It wouldn’t do anyone any good to publish that list. It’s not a fixed list either, so then I’d have to go out and justify all the changes all the time apart from all the media attention these players will get as a result. I don’t think it’s healthy. It will put extra pressure on and I don’t think club coaches will be pleased if their youngsters are suddenly approached with all these types of questions… I think the fans should trust the process, me and my staff in this. Our goal is the same as everyone’s: win prizes with attractive football. I’d be a fool if I’d close my eyes to the progress of certain youngsters.”

The press did manage to have Van Marwijk discuss some names. “Ron Vlaar is an obvious name, I guess. I know him well. He was an Oranje player before his injuries and he plays on a position that we’ve been having problems with in the past. We deliberately left him in peace in the first six months. His journey was a long one and it was irresponsible to call him up too early. The last thing he needs is to be over-utilized.”

Van Marwijk confirmed Drenthe and Maduro are on the radar as well, and a new name he came up with is Jeffrey Bruma, the young Chelsea defender. “He’s only 17 years old, mind you. But a high potential. He trains with the likes of Lampard, Terry and Drogba every week and that will definitely help his development. He’s made the final step to the Chelsea first team. Now I’d like to see him play a lot of games at that level.”

Maduro and Drenthe have a similar situation. “They are high potentials and we all know that. Under other management, they could have been selected for Oranje, or re-selected, but I don’t want to invite players on the basis of a number of good turns as a sub or a limited series of good games. Oranje needs consistency, but both players fit the bill on any other aspect.”

Van Marwijk also confirmed he enjoys watching FC Twente play… “But not only Twente. They do play according to a typical Dutch style and have great players, but I also like the developments in Eindhoven and Amsterdam. I think Dutch football is developing very nicely, despite our role at the international club level. I think that’s more a financial issue than a talent issue.”

Robin van Persie excels every week as Arsenal’s deepest striker. In Oranje, Van Persie is limited to playing on the flanks. Van Marwijk confirmed he has seen this too. “We’re not blind… We follow our players closely and have close contact with them and their club coaches. We deploy our players in such a way that benefits the team the most. I have had long talks with Robin about this and you shouldn’t be surprised if Robin plays central striker in Oranje. He’s done it before, with success, and in Arsenal’s system – which resembles what we want to do at Oranje – this works very well.”

robinoranje

The former Feyenoord coach – and the man who allowed Van Persie his debut in pro football – quickly added that he hasn’t made any firm decisions yet. “It does depend on the game and opponent though. Robin is wasted if he needs to fight off two strong central defenders in narrow spaces. Robin is lethal in situations where he has some time and space to control the ball, make a turn or can pass in another players. I don’t see him as the typical center target man. Klaas Jan is more equiped for a role like that. Klaas Jan can physically handle those situations well and doesn’t need the ball a lot to still score with a header or dry finish. I see Robin as a forward playmaker who can score goals, but his contribution – also at Arsenal – is more than scoring goals. Robin needs to play facing the goal, whereas Klaas Jan can play well as a striker with his back to the goal, if you know what I mean. Using Robin on the wing, means he has more vision towards the game, more space to create and he does have the freedom to roam around. Robin has a killer through pass and cross, and he can penetrate the box and score himself. But, it’s a luxury. We have a number of options for the center striker role. Dirk is yet another option, who may not be as prolific as Klaas Jan or Robin, but Dirk does a lot of hard work upfront, allowing players like Van Persie, Robben, Elia or Sneijder to benefit from that. Again, another model. We’re actually blessed to be able to shift our tactics for different circumstances.”

Van Marwijk makes a comparison with Afellay. “Ibrahim can play on the wing too, he can play playmaker and he excels as holding midfielder as well. We watch their progress at club level ( Afellay plays in a more controlling way for PSV) and take that on in our deliberations.”

Despite lack of playing time, Huntelaar, Babel and Van der Vaart are still part of the group for the friendlies against Italy ( November 14) and Paraguay ( November 18). Although it does seem that Huntelaar is now Milan’s third striker. “I’ll say it again, some players have more credit than others and I will make exceptions where I see fit. Huntelaar is our only real center striker. That is in his advantage with Oranje. After these two international games, we won’t be meeting for three months. In that timeframe, they will have to prove it. For the sake of Oranje and Huntelaar himself, I hope he’ll get to play more. I need top fit players for the WC. Talent and reputation aren’t enough. They need rhythm, so the coming months will be exciting for the three. Do I advise him to leave in the winter break? Hmmm… I don’t think switching clubs three times in one season is ideal, but if the choice is a bench spot in Milan or starting somewhere else, I’d know what I would do…”

Mark van Bommel is back in the Dutch selection. The last four games were missed due to a toe injury. Afellay, De Jong, Van Persie, Robben and Van der Wiel make their return as well, since the Australia game.

Tags: Ajax, Arsenal, Bruma, Group C, Van Bommel, Van Marwijk, van Persie, Vlaar

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Comments | Add your comment

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 40 comments.

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By Agragami | November 7th, 2009 at 3:04 am

This is deliberate by Bert. By giving out some names to be on his radar, he is goading them to work more hard, up their performances to get into the WC team bus. He wants them to be consistent enough. By not including fresh faces in friendlies, he might be saving them for induction as surprise elements in the WC matches. Howzzat?

Posted from India

By Oranje_For_Life | November 7th, 2009 at 3:08 am

The day that Dirk Kuyt becomes our central striker, that’ll be the day Oranje loses the game…

By ferenc | November 7th, 2009 at 4:38 am

frankie does pretty well with galataseray as well. i’m happy with bert,he’s a good coach and knows how to deal with the squad. 3 things he should change: selecting ooijer (even in the squad we don’t need him),having gio in the starting eleven (he should be on the bench),not selecting seedorf and emanuelson.

Posted from Hungary

By sonneveld | November 7th, 2009 at 6:59 am

Great jan, you are right I think we all or maybe just me want to get rid of ooijer and slightly less gio cause we are imbaressed. I have this bad thing where I want ourr team to look as impressive as possible and people will not laugh at what they don’t know. Hopefully Vlaar still gets picked because he is a good talent but playing him against Italy would be a mistake.

By Michel-Olivier | November 7th, 2009 at 8:06 am

i’m not saying to call new players and send them straight to the st. 11, but give them minutes to integrate in orange. right orange lack depth, a team with no depth have no chance of winning wc. i believe players should be call base on form. calling players base on favourtism is a disgrace.

Posted from United States

By finnster01 | November 7th, 2009 at 9:40 am

Give BVM a bit of a break please. Look, it could be worse. Imagine Oranje was coached by Rafa Benitez.

By alaa | November 7th, 2009 at 10:10 am

as I expected, De jong is benched today, it was obvious the last few games that he was going to be benched, tha sucks for the national team. man we have so many benched players, that worries me, are they not competitive enough, to be honest i dont like de jong that much, he is no where close to yaya toure, lass, or the other world class midfielders. he knows only how to do tackles with zero skills. at the end when you are a midfielder even though you’re only holding midfielder, you should be able to pass and attack!!! he can’t.

By Alex | November 7th, 2009 at 10:33 am

Talking about talent, our U-21 defence has yet to conceed a goal this season. Current regular centre there is V.Eijden-Bruma, oddly enough, instead of loaning him out for one or more seasons, V.Eijden was let go completely by PSV and now plays for NEC.

Posted from Netherlands

By fares | November 7th, 2009 at 11:19 am

bad very bad news de zeeuw (in great form ) will not play with oranje..

By fares | November 7th, 2009 at 11:22 am

so many players benched:
de jong
boulahrouz
braafheid

and certainly later in the day vaart and so will be huntelaar…

yes too many.

By Naranja | November 7th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

I like bert’s policy of calling players who have proved themselves before such as Hunter, Babel and Vaart because that gives them confidence.

We don’t need to prove new players just a few could make the cut like Emanuelson and maybe Vlaar but the way Bert is handling things gives me confidence.

By dirk v.d.Berg | November 7th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

we’ve scheduled games against Ghana in Ghana, and Hungary in Holland before the World Cup, the Ghana game is a good call so we can climatize a bit.

By Jan | November 7th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

I think it’s the result of Van Basten’s policy. It’s always like that.

Van Gaal didn’t qualify, so Advocaat relied on old hands without risk taking to make sure he just did that.

Advocaat was criticized for being conservative, so San Marco came in and started to use all sorts of young players and talents (Yildiriz? Maduro? Hofs? Janssen? Hell, he used players I didn’t even know!!).

Marco was criticized for inconsistency, so now Bert is trying to run a tight ship, instead of making Oranje into a pigeon-nest ( duiventil, Dutch expression).

So now Twente is tops in Holland. Still, the difference between playing VVV, RKC and Feyenoord (Brama) vs playing Man United, Chelsea and Liverpool (De Jong) or Stuttgart, Hamburg and Schalke (Van Bommel) is huge!

Bert tries to gel a solid team of 16 experienced and proven players, hopefully with some wild cards on top (Vlaar, Elia, Afellay).

I do believe Hunter and Vaart’s situations are awkward for Bert as well. If he doesn’t select Hunter, he might push him further in the hole. We don’t have so many center strikers and Klaas Jan is a stoic goalscoring machine, still. I don’t think it’s 100% his ffault that he doesn’t perform.

And Brama, Janssen and Stam are not center strikers! I don’t think we have issues in the holding midfielder positions…

The problem with form, is that what do you do when they’re out of it? Drop them and get the next flavor of the week in? Kelvin Leerdam and Leroy Fer? And 2 months later they can’t bring the mustard, so it’s off to Siem de Jong and that Groningen bloke?

Not sure man…

By Michel-Olivier | November 7th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

lass is not wold class, de jong is way better.

Posted from United States

By Michel-Olivier | November 7th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

@jan
so what your saying players like babel and vaart no longer have to fight to be in orange. as long as they now they will always be selected they can go to the beach and play golf. that is one of the problem with this orange no competition for places.

“San Marco came in and started to use all sorts of young players and talents (Yildiriz? Maduro? Hofs? Janssen? Hell, he used players I didn’t even know!!).”
when you are rebuilding a team you test many players, what bert have is the final product of san marco experiment.

Posted from United States

By Jan | November 7th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

I know, but Marco took it a bit too far when he used players from Ajax 2. Vlaar was thrown before the lions too early too. Maduro should have been left alone. He played in the under 21s for Oranje, for Ajax 1, it became too much.

I do believe Babel, Vaart and Hunter get their last chance now. I don’t think what you say about a perpetual spot is true.

Instead of Babel, who should Bert select? Biseswar? Wijnaldum? Amrabat? Koevermans?

Instead of Vaart, I guess Seedorf is a theoritical option, but who else do you see? De Guzman? Injured…

Instead of Hunter? Makaay?

By Rami | November 7th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

I dont see how Babel’s services are at all required now , when we already have robben, kuyt, elia, afellay playing on the flanks. Babel can just go rap now, be a producer, of sorts!!

Ive been a heavy supporter of disbanding Ooijer. Now not so much anymore. Besides Mathijsen, there is truly no one that we can consider a solid CB just yet. If that continues till June, then I dont think there should be a problem having Ooijer play as our CB, as long as he manages to keep his focus and a decent performance for june and hopefully also july.

Van Bronckhorst , as a sub from now on , definitely!!!!!! no more old & tired players as full backs, please!

Van Bommel is starting to look shaky. De Zeeuw and de Jong are looking good however.

Btw I think Mark Hughes of Man city learnt a valuable lesson today. I didnt see the game. but there was no de jong and they lost 3-3 against burnley!!!! I cant but not make the obvious connexion haha. It just looks too obvious to me.

We have plenty of options up front. Also selecting Seedorf is no disadvantage to the team, this is ridiculous bullsh*t.. Hes a great option to have, can play on the left and at the center. most importantly can replace sneijder if the latter is not performing. Brings enormous balance to the team upfront. we need him to avoid running out of options.

no Kuyt as striker. Van Persie, Huntelaar or Van Nistelrooy.

This week both braafheid and Drenthe have been dropped. This is the most worry-some sign for me, as far as Orajne is concerned.

Posted from Norway

By Carlos | November 8th, 2009 at 12:06 am

I am certainly glad many of the pessimists here dont work for me. In a time of crisis (if there is one?) I need positive people around me to steady the ship, not wailers that cry wolf the moment one of our regular Oranje player is benched or has an off day.
It is still a VERY long way to go till June (or further still July 11!) so where as its fun to fantasize and constructively criticize, please dont jump overboard as the ship is definitely not sinking and is still maintaining a steady course.
The case for Hunter is same as when he was at RM – not scoring, he played one half for Holland – scored – and the next few weeks scored 8 for RM. This is what Bert is hoping may happen because he thinks he may be able to help Hunter back on track – it’s his duty to do that with the only real out and out striker we have and who has the best scoring average for Oranje.

Posted from Singapore

By 3ric | November 8th, 2009 at 12:07 am

@Jan– I would have called up Brama instead of Mendes da Silva or Engelaar, in a heartbeat. The whole AZ situation is a joke this season, I don’t get why Schaars and Mendes receive the first-class treatment from Van Marwijk. Stam would be a good trial for RB. Besides Vd Wiel, I don’t see anybody else has been really convincing. Boulahrouz, perhaps; but his struggling in Stuggart is well documented. Babel doesn’t deserve his spot, either. How about giving a little credit to Emanuelson or Bakkal? OK, neither is a true winger, but Babel isn’t either. Babel is typically brought in as an impact player, Urby can easily take his place. Huntelaar is not a necessity, if only Van Marwijk realizes that Van Persie is Oranje’s center forward now, NOT a freaking wide player. Surround Van Persie with as many as offensive weapons so desired: Elia, Robben, Afellay, Sneijder.

By Carlos | November 8th, 2009 at 12:08 am

Jan – I read your area is totally flooded – Hope you and family are OK ?

Posted from Singapore

By Leon | November 8th, 2009 at 12:35 am

Rumours of Babel being put up for sale to raise funds for Elia.

By Jan | November 8th, 2009 at 1:39 am

Carlos, floods here?? I haven’t seen the news, but it’s probably the gold coast. Massive rain the other day… We’re fine here . Thanks for checking my friend… I am still awaiting an email with our pic in the stadium, right? Would be cool!!

By Jan | November 8th, 2009 at 1:42 am

It’s in Coffs Harbour and Bellingen! They’re copping it good this year…

By alistair | November 8th, 2009 at 4:51 am

I think we should judge BVM for what he has done so far. Two things. First, results are quite impressive. Even if the qualification group was not very strong, you know that any team can loose one or two matches especially when qualification has been secured (see England). However Holland won all matches even though a couple of them were not important for qualification.

Second, I see a level of team committment and resilience which is not very common in Dutch teams. I’ve been following oranje match by match since the mid eighties, and definitely this is one of the most compact teams. Players have learnt to fight for the ball during the 90 mintues ! I think this is due to BVM and his helpers as well no ?

By bruce | November 9th, 2009 at 8:47 am

De Jong was named as captain in Man City before Burnley game. He was sub last match should be because of routain only. De Jong is one of the main players in Hughes’s heart.

Posted from Hong Kong