Van Basten, the Media, Kluivert and our new leader…

ferenc is correct, Ruud and Kluivert never played together in major competition. They probably did during 02 qualification although I have blocked those memories from my head.

ALso now have memories of Van der meyde in 04. THat was not pretty.

Posted from  Canada

They did try Kluivert and van Nistelrooy a few times and it just didn’t work. I have never heard anything about a rift though. I have heard Van Nisterooy compare himself to Kluivert with a lot of respect for Kluivert’s abilities. The 2 are completely different strikers and as pointed out when comparing them you should always keep in mind that Kluivert played with Bergkamp. I hope Kluivert does well with PSV. He has had a weird career but it is not hard to imagine that at 30 with a Dutch club he can find himself.
For those that didn’t catch the highlights of the game against Belarus you can find some at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wLPWZFJP6w

I see some upside in the way it is coming together but I notice that I am pretty well alone in that. Kuyt with phenomonal work ethic will have a good impact in the next few years. Sneijder and van Persie, both very young but both may yet become stars. Sneijder in my opinion being the guy everyone under estimates. His roll in the WK was more defensive then I would like to see. Huntelaar is in a slump but he too will be a great asset.
The match against Luxemburg was a downer but nothing like what other Soccer countries are going through. World Champion Italy with 1 point out of 2 games; Spain losing to Northern Ireland.
It is soccer for you. $%&@ happens. Put it behind you and carry on.

@jan in 04 ruud played and kluivert sat on the bench… but there was a rift between RVN and seedorf/davids prior to the euro 04.

Posted from  Canada

Robben was subed for Bosvelt, not van der Meyde in euro 2004 against the czechs.

Btw, thought Kuyt played well today in a very ordinary looking liverpool team. How did Boularouz play? i didnt see the chelsea game but i know he started again…

With Basten dropping all experienced talents, seedorf, ruud, bommel… we can’t expact any perfect leader for the time being. There must be a tradeoff.influencial,footballing talent and experience wouldn’t come all form a player except basten called back seedorf.
Kluivert is out of from for so many years and you should forget it.
Bularouz or Kuyt or Presie are the only prospects although none of them is perfect.I can’t see any domainant mid-fielder for that role,Vaart-Sneijder are too tiny and injury-prone while Dejong and Maduro are not good enough.

Posted from  Myanmar

I am surprised Huntelaar would even play for van Basten after the WC snub. IMHO van Basten has a snotty attitude.

Posted from  United States

I am surprised Huntelaar would even play for van Basten after the WC snub.

Posted from  United States

Of course Van Persie has his faults when it comes to being the team leader. The guy is 22 years old. But this kid wants to win as much or more then everyone. WHen he realizes that the team success will depend on him being more mature that is when he will take his role. Cannibal is also a good prospect for leader although I would like his game to step up a bit first.

Posted from  Canada

Just watched Real desecrate levante.. WOW !! Three goals from van Nistelrooy shows an instant return on the 15 million euros Madrid threw Man United’s way for his services over the summer. He is definitely a safe bet for Liga top scorer this year.

Why Ferguson sold him is really hard to believe in my opinion.. Absolutely the same goes for rookie Van Basten..
I sincerely hope van Nistelrooy proves to the whole world how mistaken our Dutch manager is for leaving him out.

Posted from  Russian Federation

Capello knows how to use him.Basten and Alex too hard-headed to know their men.Ruud still missed a spot kick and another good chance.Should have scored 5.Madird colleagues created that much chances for him.

Posted from  Myanmar

dont kno wat u guys are talkin bout kluivert 4!! he is well passed it and will never be any good again! and i fink that van nisterooy has 2 come back in! he is the only player with good experience of world class football eg champions league.

Posted from  United Kingdom

I hope RVN really gets his game back in gear so MVB has no choice but to select him. WHy do I have a feeling that if he does select one of the vets under pressure he will have them on the bench. MVB was a magnificent player and I was really on his bandwagon in the springtime but now he is starting to piss me off. I have always been able to brag about this team and hype them up but right now I dont feel the same confidence in their future. MVB is pissin gme off.

Posted from  Canada

MVB was a great player, but he is not a good coach.He is destroying Dutch football and should be sacked by the football federation of Holland.

Posted from  Bangladesh

@Jan & Micha: Kluivert was the only field player not to get a minute playing time in 2004,
btw: Micha nice comment

The problem with the Robben incident was not only cause he was our best attacking force but also cause Advocaat substituted him for Bosvelt whos a midfield player trying to save a point against the czechs, it was the act of a cowerd, that was the real problem….would be interesting to see what would happen if it were vanBasten that day…im sure he wouldnt get that much shit as Advocaat did…

I just hope that Kluivert will never wear an Oranje-shirt in his life anymore (not even in his own time), but i have this nasty feeling….

@Hup: agree with you on vanPersie, but he should not play in a wing position, he should play right behind the strikers, as a 10, but here we see another problem that vanBasten created…theres no real leader who can coach vanPersie in beeing a leader..i know he learned alot form Bergkamp at Arsenal, to bad he stopped (does anyone know of a way to clone Bergkamp, please email me!!),
its a bit strange to say but its almost nice to see the mood here in Holland changing, people are really getting fed up..vanBasten should face his mistakes, learn from them and built on that, im sure we still have the players i just think the manager isnt looking at them….

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Before we all start despairing too much - I’d like to point out the positives again: Nederland picked up 6 points. Nederland has a good set of players, many playing at top clubs all over Europe.

Van Baasten did make some egregioiusly stupid statements and some weird moves. But he seems to be toning down his remarks and getting a bit more demonstrative with his players. The Van Persie high five certainly seemed new to me.
Remember Rijkaard had to learn from bitter experience too.

Yes, it’d be great to have defensive passer like de Boer, a healthy midfield general, etc. - but you can’t have everything. Nederland can win with the pieces it has.

Lastly as far as the “old group” of players - Kluivert, Van der Meyde, Zenden, Seedorf, etc. We probably can’t expect all of them to suddenly be great. In fact the chances that any one could make it back are slim. But a good veteran comeback of just one of them could contribute. So let’s hope!

Posted from  United States

Yes Samuel Knight
we have to be optimistic. things are getting beter and better. Persie, Kyut, robbben, Boula, Sneijder.. all are in from at thier clubs at top level, hunter & ruud back to score. It’s so encouraging to have a strong contigent at average age 23.
maturity is the only concern. Let’s hope Basten(as a coach) Persie, Robben and hunter turned perfcet by 2008

Posted from  Myanmar

@SK: let’see the old group of players: van der meyde - he’s the shadow of himself,don’t think we need him,the same with zenden - he’s usually substitute at liverpool (sometimes good),and he has never been a fundamental piece,kluivert - we should forget him. van the man and van bommel are different,we need both of tmem but the one we need most is clarence. sorry that i’m always writing about him,but he’s usually outstanding at milan ac.
otherwise i also see the future bright - with talents like van persie,vdv,robben,boula,huntelaar,sneijder,and some of the guys of u21
only one thing wee need desperately is that marco give a good mix and forget his preconceptions,personal stupidities.

Posted from  Hungary

Anytime Danny Lanzaat is in the starting squad you know MVB is trying to prove a point.

My question is what point? and to who?

Posted from  Canada

he tries to prove that danny landzaat is better than clarence seedorf and marc van bommel or both of them together but he doen’t succceed it

Posted from  Hungary

Yeah but there has to be some other reason he is adding Lanzaat and Maduro on a constant basis. He either has to be using these guys to install extra motivation to players like Van Bommel and Seedorf. Or these guys are just good poker buddies.

Posted from  Canada

Given Holland’s mediocrity in the midfield, Seerdorf would probably help–and I think Van Basten is starting to realize that himself. Youth is a good thing–but the best teams have the right mix of youthful talent and savvy experience–look at France in the WC, and maybe Italy too (?). As for RVN, my take is that he’s not a good match with robben and van persie on the wings, who want mostly to create for themselves and not someone else. RVN is a great finisher but needs good servicing; not sure he can get that from the talented duo on the wings.

Posted from  United States

Hello. Firstly id like to say how can u b so critical of the all time leading dutch scorer???!!! he achieved this at 27 and was a devestating striker. i think u dutch have been spending to much time in ur cafe’s and the dope has got to u. And ‘goose’ who the hell are u, he had too great seasons in holland, followed by 4 at barca and his scoring record is second to none and he scorted the winner in the champions league final and has one the goldem boot in europe. he is a true legend and an all time great and im not even dutch and i recognize that.Also if u support him and give him the confidence he needs he will become a geat again. Does he desreve to be voted the 4th most h8d man in holland above war criminals and murderes - hell no all time leading scorer average is bette rthan a goal a game. support him and ul c. ne doubter watch the following: firstly background info to jog ure warped minds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ3JBgNSOuw&search=kluivert . secondly kluivert vs ruud:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaYcXQGqYGU&search=kluivert . finally his goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsmeSgUTjT4&search=kluivert .
well bye and give ure self a big hand for not stiking bye a true legend and along withe the media destroyin him b4 he cld rele show the world wot he cld do.

Posted from  United Kingdom

@TOM:
better get your facts straight first my friend:
1.Kluivert played 3 seasons in Holland, he never scored more than 18 a season (Cruijff,vanBasten,Rep,Kuyt,vanNistelrooy) all scored at least 20 a season during 3 seasons)
2. he played 6 seasons for Barcelona never scoring more than 18 a season winning only one spanish legaue title
3. he never won the golden boot, this is a prize for the top scorer in Europe which he never was
4. hes not the most hated man in Holland and nobody ever said he was

now to Oranje:
1. true hes the all time scorer in Oranje (and im thankfull of that) but remember he had the best team around him we had since 1974-78, Bergkamp,deBoer,Overmars, they were players who could feed the striker

now to him playing for Oranje:
if somebody respresents my country i want a players who always gives his best on and of the pitch he should be a proffessional…Kluivert surely isnt a real pro…he wasted his talent with partying, beeing lazy, drinking, chasing woman etc.(and always blaming others) you might not care but your not dutch so you wouldnt understand..

im very hopefull hell never get anywhere near the level he was 8 years ago, so thats great news..

love to hear from you again…greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

1) 2 out of his 3 seasons were great in holland, one was average. (is 18 goals in 25games a bas thing?)
2)Its not down to an individual to win the title, its the team. How is 18 goals in la liga an underachievement? i think 17 goals in 26 games was a very good achievement. Undoubted great players in spain havnt achieved this includion the likes of ronaldinho. kluivert cored 90 goals 4 barca in 6 seasons, he hasd an average of a goal every 2 games. it wasnt even a great barca side
3) he did win the golden boot in euro 2000 when he tied for topgoalscorer.
4)No hes not the most hated, he got voted the 2nd most hated dutchman in a poll.

yes to be fair it was great dutch team, and he was a greta player in that great team, he 2 also became playmaker and returned the favour to the likes of bergkamp.

when he was a favourite and supported by the press and the people he wasnt lazy annd was motivated. it was only after the press and fans turned on him he became lazy as his morale and self belief had been had benn dented. he didnt onl;y have to beat 11players, he had to beeth the press and the people 2.

he may not deserve a national team place at the moment but if he performs well for psv and the people get behind him, its not too late for him to make 1 final stand.

look 4ward to hearing from u

tom

Posted from  United Kingdom

1. 18 goals as a striker for Ajax in the dutch leguae is pretty mediocre, any Ajax striker should score 20 or more each season

2. true, you almost never win a leguae title on your one (maybe Maradonna for Napoli?) but here i was stressing that Kluivert certainly (as a club-player) is no legend and nothing special (true he has a good technic but a striker should be a goalscorer first and most,

3. Golden Boot is a prize for the overall topscorer in the european legueas, last dutchman to win: Roy Makaay, 02-03, 29 goals, ;think were talking about different golden boots

4. which pole was that?? but he never was popular in Holland (maybe with Ajax fans during the half 90), esp. after the driving accident and the rape charge..it always looked like he fled from Holland when he went to AC Milan (were he f#cked up btw)

dont think well ever see him in an orange shirt ever again

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands