Van Basten leaves a trail of disaster…

you can call Derksen whatever you like but reading this article felt to me as if i was reading my own mind..

I for one totally back everything Derksen says..every single point…

well be interesting to hear the comments on this one…

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

i think the surrent side is good, but it could have been better much much better. With all the top-class players, at least some good fluent play was a minimum at the world cup…. And now it can be said officially, it’s down to the players that there were results, but to have fluent play there must be a good coach.

beating reserve ireland was a terrific result, but comparing the players of both teams, it was not difficult to say why netherlands won.

of course agree with Derksen and on the fact that van basten does not like objections of his players, that’s why maybe he likes vennegor compared to a charismatic seedorf or davids

totally agree with derksen – even i would like to see clarence in the center of midfield and not ajax subs in the oranje,etc,etc

marco is a kind of dictator,who doesn’t learn from his mistakes and blames players having different opinion. he prefers mediocre vennegoors to seedorf,davids (he was my favourite player of the last 10 years),rvn,etc

why cruyff doesn’t tell him that this is not the good way?

for ex this oranje would be a very strong team,but with marco we will never see it:

van der saar – heitinga,boulahrouz,matthijsen,van bronckhorst – de jong,seedorf,van der vaart – van persie,huntelaar,robben

subs: stekelenburg,ooijer,emanuelson,kromkamp,vlaar,van bommel,sneijder,schaars,kuijt,van nistelrooij,castelen

Posted from  Hungary

The media spotlight can be harsh after a bad WC, but Derksen is right on. As a PT fan, it was clear that Holland’s problems and failed strategy were largely Van Basten’s fault. The talent is certainly there. It only needs to managed properly. The fact that the Dutch media is finally confronting this head on is a good sign for the national team. It will lead to growth and the re-emergence of a great Oranje side.

Posted from  United States

I think the name betrays a lot: van Baasten wants to be the baas (boss) all the time. Far too much.

The coach isn’t the really the boss on national teams. He doesn’t train the players for 90% of the time. He’s got to get more or less fully formed players and mesh them into a cohesive unit fairly quickly.

It’s hard but the baas attitude is starting to become self-defeating. More than anything you want to yell: “Just stop being an asshole!”

And, although I concur that the Netherlands didn’t play up to potential in the World Cup – calling it a total disaster is an overstatement. They got out of a tough group – and lost to a good Portugese team. And their qualification was pretty good.

But it did seem that Van Baasten did waste a lot of potential. Remember Schneijder taking free kicks rather than Van Persie againt Portugal? WTF?

And it also seemed that van Baasten got mad at particular people when faced with tough choices. He blamed Van Nistelrooy for not playing well with Van Persie and Robben, but it was clear that their respective styles didn’t mesh that well.

When he picked Van Persie, he needed a more reactive forward – like Makaay to play along side him, rather than Van N.

And of course the bench, you need a strong core of bench players to throw into the game – and there just seemed no plan to set it up.

But I will dissent with Davids. Please look at the replay of C. Ronaldo’s goal in Euro 2004 against Oranje. See Davids standing there doing nothing as the ball bounced right by him. (Compare that to Van P blocking a shot cleaning against Cote D’Ivoire). Plus he’s 34 and hasn’t been a top player for a bit.

Van Baasten could get better, but someone should get through to him – stop being such a jerk! Berate players privately, not publicly.

Posted from  United States

@Kervin, i agree that its down to the players to get a result in the end, my problem is that i dont think vanBasten selects the best possible starting 11, he decides which players can play for a result…

@SK, so very true, vanBasten is still under the impression that he is a worldclass striker in his heigh days, he forgets hes a coach..as a player he was in a position to behave egocentric etc., not anymore, i keep saying: vanBasten should look & learn from Hiddink…

ofcourse Davids had his time in Oranje but the way vanBasten treated him tells it all..

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

@goose, he should learn from hiddink and from rijkaard too..

Posted from  Hungary

i saw ajax-copenhagen… what a disaster – and marco bases his oranje on this ajax… no comment

Posted from  Hungary

BTW – World Class superstars rarely ever turn out to be good coaches(Cruijff is the exception). And it appears that there are two reasons for that:

1) The skill sets are a bit different. and

2) When you’re that good and used to being so dominating, it’s very hard to relate to players who aren’t that good. Frequently the stars are just befuddled on why these players just don’t do what the star was capable of. They think: what’s they’re problem, are they being lazy or something?

Point 2) appears to me to explain Van baasten a bit, he gets far too impatient with his folks. Van N – you didn’t do exactly what I wanted you to do!
Van B – what you didn’t cover the area like I wanted you to and how come your shots aren’t that good! Van de Vaart – how come you can’t play a whole game hard when you’re injured? etc.

But heh, maybe he’ll learn…

Posted from  United States

some more exception:beckenbauer,rijkaard,klinsmann

Posted from  Hungary

I agree… Capello, Menotti…really there’s a great deal of top players who became top coach and a lot of top school teachers who became top coach . It’s a attitude, mentality, vision, character, empathy and emotional intelligence thing.

Posted from  Australia

Before the world cup cup holland was getting great results in what was one of the toughest qualifying groups… During that run we set a WORLD RECORD for going nearly a 1000 min without conceding… Holland toped the group and beat the Czechs at home and away… then at the world cup holland wins its first two matches, draws argentina and most of us were singing marco’s prasies… Then comes the infamous Pourtugal game which was a Bull shit game.. and we loose… then suddenly all the axes come out and now MVB is a tyrant??????????? Sure Marco could have put on RVN (which i agree he should have) but the dutch had ample chances to at least tie the game but we didn’t… The reason why Marco acts like the boss is because HE IS THE BOSS!!!! For too long the dutch have been a group of individual talent and its good for the team to have someone one put them in their place especially by someone who is the only person to ever lead the dutch to victory at a major tournament. In my opinion dropping the big name players for the dutch was one of the best things he could do for the team… Lets not forget davids had a crap euro 2004 and was sent off in the 3-1 defeat to the czechs in qualifying… Makaay is a good player but not world class.. seedorf was not influencial at euro 2004….kluvert hasn’t even been a regular starter for years… so i think MVB made some good cuts… however cutting RVN all together is unthinkable however starting KJH is a smart move especially if he clicks with the wing play… however if Holland are to win Euro 2008 then need an enforcer in midfield like davids was in the late 90’s or a jan wouters…

Posted from  Canada

FCK FCK FCK, in my opinion FCK (Copenhagen) were the better team 3/4 halfs of the two champions league ties, they deserve to go through. Their team spirit and attitude far out shone Ajax’s in both leagues.

@JJS, I think the criticism that MvB has to endure is about the way he handles situations and treat people. Jaap Stam said before the WC already, that when he met MvB at a function in Milan, Marco was very distant and aloof and somewhat impolite. The way he treated Davids (with his comparisons to Wouters, while he made Davids captain in the first place!!), the snubbing of Seedorf and Kluivert as moviestars, the bully-ing of Bommel, now the ditching of Ruud… It’s just the way he handles things that people get annoyed with. Even today, he acts like he’s happy with where Oranje is going. There hasn’t been any self reflection or doubt or any other human response to the WC and his role there in. That ticks people of. And at the same time Babel, Maduro, Sneijer, Stekelenburg, Heijtinga are being treated as princes. On the basis of what exactly?? Oh, the red stripe on the white shirt? And don’t forget, the Oranje results pre-Portugal 06 were not bad, but the quality of the games we played was poor. It was lucky, counterattacky football. So put these things all together and it’s understandable that – post WC – people want to “evaluate” the Boss. Michels may have been a arse in his days, but he got results and great football!! And Michels knew how to “play” with big mouth players like Cruyff, Keizer, Van Hanegem and Krol…

Posted from  Australia

I agree with jip jaap stam. Only one game made us stop beleiving in MVB ..one mad bullshit game.

Think like a coach not like a fan. Why do you think Davids is a good of a player, he was good. not any more. For god sake, he plays for Spurs … what more rubbish than this team. They are rubbish collectors. like their stupid fat coach …

Maybe Makaay could have been a good sub, but what does he offer more than RVN cant offer. …

As a coach I try to provide solutions for my team …

Pace (speed) , Left footed, dribbler, tall player. …. even if u find these player warming the bench, their inclusion to the team can change a lot. Bable is part of the future …

For example: Walcote to the England. This kid can present something different.

I think that MVB learned a lot from the WC and he will be carefull in picking the line up. Holland have many good players, but finding the chemestry is the hard part.

I think RVN will come back to Holland. MVB did not call him cause he just moved to RM and things were not clear for him, then Holland played a freindly and next game is with Luxemburg.

Posted from  United States

@Fares: i didn’t believe in marco before the wc cause of his attitude towards seedorf,davids,makaay,and for not selecting huntelaar. you say davids is the past – ok,but at the wc he could have strenghten the midfield. we lacked this and we know the result. btw cocu was not old,only edgar?
seedorf is still one of the best player of ac milan. who is playing in the place of seedorf? landzaat? maduro? de jong? don’t tell me that they are better. landzaat is 30 the same as clarence. look at france – zidane was 34. so clarence could be there in 2010.
i don’t give a shit to marco’s theory about team spirit,collectivity,stardom,blablabla. at his time he was a superstar and a very tough character. he should accept more or less the same kind characters as a coach too.
i prefer selfish moviestars playing beautiful football and having results instead of cohesive groups playing mediocre football wuthout any significant results.

just some comparaison:
davids,seedorf,kluivert and co:
98 wc semi final (penalties…),
2000 ec semi final (penalties again),2004 ec semi final

marco van basten:
2006 wc – 2nd tour

these are the facts. so marco should prove himself – for ex. winning the ec 2008 and the wc 2010. or at least making a potential winner team.

and of course: with clarence seedorf:-)

Posted from  Hungary

Good point above about some more great players becomig good coaches.

Posted from  United States

latest news on Marco, he will quit as bondscoach after the euro 2008!!

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

i think after the result against romania last night when holland lost its time for us to say goodbye to mvb instead of wasting another tounament in 2008

Posted from  Australia

@Heshan; wishful thinking my friend..thats never gonna happen

Posted from  Netherlands