Van Basten: Change our playing style…

Goose: i’m totally agree with you: if we continue the way we played against albania and luxemburg every game will be very difficult. our eleven should act on the field as a team, as a unit. this is the strength of italy,france or germany. they individuals - except the defenders - are not better than ours but they are capable of acting together. there is a high level organization in their teamwork. this is the coach’s responsability.

Posted from  Hungary

its van den berg. As in “from the mountain”, which is weird because there are really no mountains in the netherlands.

Posted from  Canada

yes; van den Heuvel (hill) would be more logic! haha

@ferenc; true.. he must decide; do the best individuel players make the best team or not?? just hate it that it is so obvious what is gonna happen; the same as happened in 2004 and 2006! and it wont be pretty!!
I&(*^&*^&*^&(&%$$^%(*()

Posted from  Netherlands

I still think Makaay deserves to be on the team, he’s a great team player, and would benefit from a 4-4-2 formation.

Posted from  Canada

makaay will be 35 in 2010. in the last 2-3 years he hasn’t done anything special.

Posted from  Hungary

The group is not as tough as it could be in order to qualify to the World Cup of 2010. It is not an easy group because Norway has potential and Scotland too to reach the World Cup and Iceland and specially Macedonia are very competitive teams but if Holland plays at their best there is no team in this group that can makes us suffer but the problem is that we are not playing at our best. I think that is not just van Basten´s fault. There are players who have not shown the same attitude that they have with their clubs, that is the case of players like van der Vaart, Sneijder and even Seedorf!. I think the players are not motivated with this coach but if they go to play and wear the famous Oranje jersey the least we should expect from them is to give it all and play 110% concentrated and with all the passion for representing their country but few players seem to play with all they have.

Sometimes players lose the admiration to represent their country because they think it´s normal but is the manager´s task to remind them how important is to play for your country and the privilege that they have to do it. And it is true, there players who become so important to their clubs (who pay the money) that when they go to the national teams are only taking care of themselves and trying at all costs to avoid an injury. I agree they should be careful but the best way to avoid injuries is to play with all you have because if you enter into a fight for the ball with a guy like Gattuso trying not to get injured it is even more likely to gey injured because you have to fight the ball with all your strengths and some players are not playing like that. We want the Davids style not the van der Vaarts who are playing like actors on the pitch and that is not just van Basten´s fault. If our players don´t start showing the passion of players like de Boer, Davids and the past generation then in the next Euro we will have a very sad tournament for Oranje.

I think the next leader for Oranje will be Robin van Persie, van Basten and the next coaches will have to work a lot with his mental strenght because he is the man who can guide us to glory. He is a player that can be compared to Ronaldinho, Kaká and Messi. His technical skills are so great that when I watch him I get surprised of the movements he makes with the ball and the kind of shots he can do because are pretty unique. I think Robben, Sneijder and Rafa are great talents but van Persie is from a different planet. If he continues playing like he has done recently he will be a legend. Unfortunately he has been injured quite often and hopefully that problem will be gone because we don´t him to suffer like Robben but guys, van Persie has everything what it takes to be the best player of this generation just like Bergkamp was the best player of the last great generation of players we had.

Makaay may not have done anything special, but he’s been consistent, more than kuyt or koevermans, or any other centre striker. I realize he probably won’t play for world cup 2010, but it would be nice to have him in a couple of tough qualifying games.

Posted from  Canada

Makaay is not over yer. He is showing at Feyenoord how good can be and he would be an interesting playe for Oranje.

I like Mackaay and Koevermans

Makaay never had a change (Kluivert etc.) and now hes too old!

Posted from  Netherlands

Makaay always was a “German” style counter striker. He does well in 4-4-2 systems. He is not the passing-positioning player like Kluyvert was. So, he never made it. And when he was part of Oranje in the last years, I think he had a fall out with Marco who sent him away. Now, with the 4-4-2 he could be of use to Oranje… But it’s a funny guy. His expression and body language seem to say he doesn’t care what’s happening on the pitch. Very aloof and lacklustre. And then suddenly: bang! 1-0…

Posted from  Australia

i’m not agree that seedorf doesn’t give his 100% in oranje. he does. actually comparing to patrick kluivert (at his best) it’s understandable that makaay has never integrated into oranje. jan, you’re totally right - when i saw him playing for the national team i always had the feeling that he didn’t fit it at all.

what is important from our past is that when oranje was great we alwasy had a great ajax and competitive psv (or feyenoord). before going to foreigner clubs the guys had been playing together for 5-6 years. a kind of automatism evolved,they used to know each other by heart. right now the case is totally different. it means that without important (i mean on the european level) clubfootball our international football doesn’t seem too bright…

Posted from  Hungary

@Jan; very true words.. remember Makaay is from de Achterhoek wich is as near to Germany as is healthy for a person!

maybe i was a bit too soon with me ‘ hes too old’comment… could he play for Oranje still?? i think hes a far better striker than Koevermans or Vennegoor…

heared that he also is a funny man within the selection.. a good guy to have in the dressingroom

Posted from  Netherlands

Makaay has never performed well in the national team, not even when we played 4-4-2 at times. I dont think he would work out well now either, plus I think we should give more playing time to Huntelaar instead of letting some old van Nistelrooy copy play. I agree that he is better than Koevermans but he shouldnt be compared to Vennegoor since they play in totally different ways.

About Seedorf… I have to say I find him very overrated. He only plays good in periods and in between those he play like shit.

In the classification of elite teams at the international level, it seems to me that Scotland and Norway are not in that group. Therefore, and assuming that the Netherlands remains an elite international national team, then by comparison with other groupings, the one including Holland is mid-to low-level. If this group of teams challenges the Netherlands, and the Dutch do not win the group, then I believe they have left the classification of elite and have become another reasonably competitive team. Based on the collective analysis of the bloggers, including both player and coaching evaluations, Holland may now be “only” a higher quality but not an elite team any more. Compared with other “elite” nations having top national football teams, the Dutch do well when considering population. To some extent the Netherlands teams have always been “overachievers”, which has been the fun of being a Dutch fan. This comparatively small country has produced many dozens of excellent footballers and competed with the big boys for a long time. We all hope this continues, no one more than I do. The next two years will tell, first at EC ‘08 and then in the WC qualifiers. For now, I believe this current team and coaches are several notches below the teams of ‘74, ‘78, ‘88 and ‘98, teams of truly elite status.

Posted from  United States

I’ve seen on the site that there is some confusion regarding how to determine the ranking of the best runner-ups since there are 8 groups with 6 teams and 1 group (The Netherlands) with 5 teams. In other words, there will be an opportunity for 48 teams to play 2 more games (i.e. 6 more points) than the remaining 5 teams. Let me try to explain how this is cleared up:

The rankings of the best 2nd place teams from the 9 groups (after all the games have been played) will be determined by ignoring any points gained from the team that finished 6th. This is because the 5 teams in Holland’s group never had a chance to get one of the weakest teams (in Pot 6). This way, it will be pretty fair and there is no advantage of being in a group of 6 from a point perspective.

Hope this help

Posted from  United States

Who do you think the Netherlands should set up friendlies against. I personally think we should get used to playing top teams like Germany, France, etc.

Posted from  Canada

Dirk,
I think you should actually try to line up Finland and/or Sweden because you are playing two Scandinavian teams (Iceland & Norway) and they all play very similar style. Sweden is of course a quality team but Finland is on the way up and nearly qualified for the EC08. However they all have the same characteristics as each other. Denmark on the other hand actually play a different style, so it would be no use to play them in a friendly

Anyway, I think it has been a while since Holland played a typical Scandinavian team and they do play a very different style than what you have had to deal with when qualifying for EC08. Norway & Iceland both play direct over the middle, plays the quick counterattack, and try to create unbalance on the attack. They both have huge tall men upfront for set pieces etc (Norway has Carew & Iversen, Iceland has Gudjunsson). Normally the Netherlands should take care of business but I think a friendly or two against someone like Sweden or Finland would not hurt at all.

Posted from  United States

For the record, just wanted to commend Jan and the rest of you regulars for creating an excellent forum here. I just discovered it a coupld of days ago. Although I live in New York, I am soccer crazy and a native Norwegian and follow very closely what the papers are saying in Norway. In fact, will keep this site updated with views from that side of the coin so you can get that perspective as well.

The initial view is mixed feelings. The draw could have been both worse or better. They view the group from a “difficult” perspective as about average. There are worse groups, and there are easier ones. Having said that, the consensus amongst the players and the head coach is that the Netherlands are obviously favoured to win the group, and the battle for second will be between Norway & Scotland. However, there are already some hints that they think the Netherlands will underestimate the opposition, which they think Norway can take advantage of. Iceland is a dark horse and will take points from several teams, and so will Macedonia at home (play with a lot of heart and with some tough players. Could get pretty ugly down there)

I think in this day and age, that the “underestimate” angle is a bit naive and certainly a team like the Netherlands with world class quality professionals will not fall into that trap. But I will say that Norway is certainly on the up, and were extremely unlucky not to qualify for EC08 (two very costly goalkeeper blunders against Turkey).

Anyway, as more interesting news develop over there, I will keep the forum posted. I wish the Netherlands all the best of luck, although I am obviously a little biased and want to see Norway make it through also.

Posted from  United States

Iversen was playing amazingly against Chelsea, and was executing a lot of back-heel passes, and mid air passes. He seems to have great control, and an okay shot. He’ll be someone that our defenders will have to control.

Posted from  Canada

BTW, Rosenborg only finsihed fifth in the Norway league this year (which is bizarre by the way…). And yes, they got whopped by Chelsea in CL today, but beat Valencia twice (home & away) and drew away to Chelsea, so I think it is fair to say these guys are quite legit and as Dirk points out Iversen is a piece of work. Scored a hat-trick in the last NT qualifier away to Malta (no big deal, but a hat-trick none the less). He also scored two goals against Valencia in CL which are hard to beat at home.

However, being in-form right now does not give us any favours in the future. It is a little early. I look forward to EC08 and as usual I will be rooting for the Netherlands as I always thought you play the most exciting football (perhaps with the exception of the 1986 WC Denmark team) Anyway, have always been a fan of Cruif,ruud krol, rijkard, surely van basten, gullit etc. Not so if sure they were great managers in hindsight, inluding marco(especially pissing off van nistleroy), but they sure could play football in their prime time and put a smile on the face of a little boy in Norway. I wish we had just a fraction of those guys in our own team today…Today, I like your young players like Van Persie, Babel, and Robben etc. You always seems to have an amazing way of developing talent in the Netherlands, other countries should try to copy that. Har to argue with the results…

Posted from  United States

Has anyone else noticed that both Norway, and Macedonia are in our U-21 squad’s qualification. I say we call up De Haan, even as just back-up coach for those two games. Maybe call up Drenthe too, whose already scored against both those teams.

Posted from  Canada