Spectacular victory over Austria: 3-4!

I might be a bit crazy, but I actually think we should play Huntelaar in place of van Nistelrooij. Not just because he’s been getting goals, but because when he’s on the pitch he seems to have a harder work rate. He makes efforts to get into the right positions. It’s hard to deny van Nistelrooij the place, but he’s been off form for a while, and Huntelaar is just playing so good, I think it will be a close call for van Basten.

Anyone else think Huntelaar just be first choice?

Posted from  Canada

Weeeeeell. Suriname won with 7-1 against Montserrat so maybe we can borrow someone from there.

Anyway, I often find three defenders more defensive than four since all three tend to stay back unlike if you play with two wing backs, where only two needs to stay in defense.

dirk - actually i understand your point of view - huntelaar instead of ruud. one more point: technically he’s more gifted. but on the other hand ruud has the routine. huntelaar has not too much international experience,and italy,france and roumania are not austria.
the idea of 3 defenders is pretty good but a little bit risky.

Posted from  Hungary

@dirk v.d berg: Not me. Huntelaar’s been playing very well but Ruud is more lethal if you play the team for him, we need the team to pass the ball to him and to have him as the 1rst reference in attack as they do at Real. During the last WC 2006 he didn’t get enough passes or crosses from Robben and Persie. Although Huntelaar might win his spot on the starting XI if Persie or Ruud don’t get back to their level.

@ferenc: we do have a mediocre defense but if managed well it could be much better than it’s now. There are 2 issues why I think we lack a good defense.
1) If Van Basten had played the same players from game to game we’d already have a defense who could undestand each other much better.
2) I think he doesn’t play the best defenders we have. Melchiot and De Cler are good attacking but I’m still not convinced with their defensive duties. My defense would be Kromkamp, Heitinga, Mathijsen and Bouma.

In my opinion Kromkamp and Bouma would be a better option, we have already played with them in the past and they have done very well.

Edwin

Kromkamp, Heitinga, Mathijsen, Bouma/Gio

Bommel and Landzaat/Gio
Afellay Robben

Persie and Ruud

*Van der Vaart to the bench, he hasn’t played well for Holland.

Ruud wasn’t used properly in the WC. We played counter football there, in my opinion, hoping for some magic from Robben or Robin. You can’t judge Ruud on the WC. In the Serbia game he didn’t get any decent service, he got one chance vs Ivory Coast and scored. The Argentina game sucked and that was it!

Ruud will enforce fear into Italy, France and Rumania. More so than Hunter. They will keep two man on him. I don’t care how well or how bad Ruud plays. If he can create space for V Persie to score three goals, I’m happy.

The problem we face now, is that the new 1-4-2-3-1 system isn’t glued in too well. Marco changed his religion too late. Now there’s not a lot of time left to puzzle. And with puzzle I mean not just who plays where (Sneijder holding or attacking, Vaart or Seedorf, Melchiot or Kromkamp) but I’d also would want to experiment more with systems if I were team manager. I’d definitely test the 1-3-3-3-1, with the defenders staying put marking the strikers (all opponents use 2 strikers or less!!) and I’d use Gio on the left holding position and Sneijder on the right. Van Persie can cover the right flank up front, Robben/Vaart the left flank and Seedorf can be the shadow striker. Ruud’s task would be to annoy the shit out of the two central defenders of the opponent and to finish dryly and efficiently when he has the chance to.

That would be my way to go.

I’d also claim the players for a week to try to automate this system instead of playing another friendly vs Scotland, Andorra, Iceland or who ever is next in line.

Posted from  Australia

miguel: you dont’t see my point of view: these defenders are interchangeable. some of them is a little bit better than the other but the difference is not too much,doesn’t make oranje better or worse. maybe the only kromkamp is better than the average but i remember his past at villareal and at liverpool…

unfortunately there is a 3rd issue as well: lack of talent. our defenders know how to attack but they don’t know too much about their real duties. let’s compare to our direcz opponents? do we have a abidal? gallas? sagnol? grosso? cannavaro? chiellini? bonera? zambrotta? chivu? not really. and this is what i call lack of talent. at his time reiziger was the worst element of our backline. today he would be fom far the best. this is the problem.

Posted from  Hungary

dirk - I can sort of see your point too, Huntelaar played well in this last game, but I’d still keep Ruud. In the new system I can see him getting more chances, and we all know how lethal he is. I agree with Jan, Ruud wasn’t used properly in the WC, and we can’t judge him on that. I remember the last EC when Ruud was almost the top scorer in the tournament, and he played very well. I think he can do that again.

Miguel - I’m not sure how you can say take off Melchiot because he is weak defensively, and put on Krompkamp. Isn’t Krompkamp exactly the same - can attack, but makes critical defensive mistakes? I like Melchiot. He’s been playing very well in the Premiere league, and he’s played very well for Oranje. Our best choice in that position, in my opinion.

In the second half, I think Sneijder was one of the holding midfielders. He played very well. So, I will pick Sneijder and Gio, instead of De Zeew and Gio. So, the three man is: Seedorf, VdV, and Van Persie. As the stiker is still, Ruud. It will make Holland better.

Posted from  Indonesia

Firstly and undeiabaly a great come back. Marco did the right things to bring in JVH and Seedorf, pull back Sneijder and let Bouma step in.
can’t understand basten why Basten fails to gain a stability in defence terms. He did organize a fine defence pact of Kromptkamp, Boula, Joris, Gio and Lanzaart during WC2006 qualifying. With Boula and joris out of from, Gio and lanzaart aging he really hardly finding another mix.
Kromptkamp regain his from and Bouma proving better while Heitinga made some impacts. Only solution could be bouma, Ooija, Heitinga and Kromptkamp.
holding mid-field could be strengthten by Maduro and Dranthe, the youngsters playing well in la liga. it’s proved again we need Sneijder and Seedorf for controlling and assisting defensive mid-filed.3:3:3:1 formation as Jan suggests also interesting as our side-backs neither helpful in wing attacks nor defensively reliable.
Bouma, Ooija, Heitanga
Dranthe, Sneijder, De jong
Persie, Seedorf, Vaart
Ruud/Hunter
could be an option

Posted from  Thailand

So, this will be netherlands team in euro 2008
Goalkeepers (3):
Edwin van der Sar, Maarten Stekelenburg, Henk Timmer
Defenders (6):
Hedwiges Maduro, Johny Heitinga, Joris Mathijsen, Tim de Cler, Mario Melchiot, Wilfred Bouma

Midfielders(7):
Rafael van der Vaart, Wesley Sneijder, Ibrahim Afellay, Clarence Seedorf, Demy de Zeeuw, Nigel de Jong, Giovanni van Bronckhorst

Attackers(6):
Ruud van Nistelrooy, Klaas Jan Huntelaar, Jan Vennegor of Hesselink, Robin van Persie, Ryan Babel, Arjen Robben

Posted from  Indonesia

my line up will be 1-4-2-3-1

van der Sar

Melchiot Heitinga Mathijsen de Cler

de Zeeuw Maduro

Sneijder van der Vaart
van Persie

van Nistelrooy

Alternative formation will be 1-4-1-3-2

van der Sar

Melchiot Heitinga Mathijsen de Cler

Maduro

afellay van der Vaart
sneijder

van Persie van Nistelrooy

Posted from  Indonesia

I agrre with a lot of what has been said but i dont think holland should use more that 2 holding midfielders. I would definately keep sneijder and van bronckorst as holding midfielders as they played really well their roles vs austria.The debate between 3 or 4 defenders is quite simple… start of with 4 and then move one up behind the 2 holding midfielders as a stopper when we need to score a goal fast(like the game vs austria)As for the creative talents there is no doubt that we should use van oersie and robben on the wings as they are extremely skillfull and fast. Van der vaart in the middle as a shadow striker. for the striker this is wherr i ahve a huge problem of choice…. i mean v nistelrooy is the man when he s on for and it is true that italy and france will stick 2 me out for him.. but if huntelaar plays they might underestimate him and leave him to cause soome trouble on his own. huntelaar is also better at picking up headers tahn v nistelrooy but van nistelrooy is better shot wise.. tough debate. My line up if we need a goal would be:
——————————-v.der saar———————————-

——————heitinga——–bouma———De cler——————–

——————————-drenthe————————————-

——————-sneijder—————–van.bronckorst—————–

——van.persie—————–van.der.vaart——————-robben—-

——————————-huntelaar———————————–

if we play 4-2-3-1 drenthe comes back as left back. I think drenthe would do really well at otanje. loyts of fighting spirit to win the ball. reminds me of davids.

Posted from  Switzerland

drenthe told schuster in september that he didn’t want to play at all left back and his natural position was attacking midfielder. at the moment there is too much hype here about him. the reality is that he’s a sub at madrid and doesn’t play too much. when he plays he’s right winger and he plays as mediocre as his team with lots of position and technical mistakes. he would be one more player supposed to make defending duties but better in attacking.

Posted from  Hungary

I don’t think we should change our formation at all. The fact that we let in goals was the fault of Mathijsen and Henk Timmer. They probably wouldn’t have been scored if van der Sar was in net, at least not the first one anyways.

The only thing I think we should do is, do what Poland is doing. They schedule extra friendlies against really weak teams like Estonia, and then don’t invite any of the regulars, and play all extras, to see if any of them are team quality. We’d field plays like Castelen, Slory, Stekelenburg, Rigters, and see if they’re up to scruff to play in the top team, then call the best back against the Ukraine, and see how they fit it. Just a thought.

Posted from  Canada

@dirk; it would be very difficult for the KNVB to plan more friendlies..think the calander is pretty full for most guys…it would be great tough, more time to see what kinda players we have outside the usual suspects….in an ideal world you would have a situation like Hiddink had in Korea; put everything aside for the ultimate goal….

but with all our players who play for big teams and the fight for power/time between the clubs and the national teams things will not improve in the future,is my guess

Posted from  Netherlands

But players like Rigters who don’t get starting time, the coach would let them go, and if Poland can get all these extra friendlies why can’t we. I think in the time that we’ve played Croatia and Austria, they’ve played Finland, Czech Republic, Estonia, USA and one more I think. Beenhakker’s a good coach for them, I think he actually believes he can win this EC. If they do win this EC, it will be because of him, and the same applies to Hiddink for Russia. Hiddink always surprises people. Netherlands getting 4th 1998 wasn’t much of a surprise, but South Korea doing it in 2002 was, and Australia making it to the Round of 16 in WC 06 was, and Russia qualifying over England. Definitly my favourite coach, but Beenhakkers pretty good.

Posted from  Canada

dirk: south corea’s fourth place in 2002 was scandalous - just remember the referees… against portugal,italy and spain. like this is quite eassy to get a fourth place.

Posted from  Hungary

You’re definitely right about those referees ferenc, it was terrible (although I can’t say I was sad to see it against Italy… some revenge for other ‘highly questionable’ calls they’ve had gone their way).

dirk - why in the world would we need another forward like Ritgers? We already have lots and lots of forwards and have to leave some behind.

I’m not saying specifically forwards, defense too, just to see how our players can compete in Oranje. There’s some players who are good enough to star for the Oranje like de Ridder, who don’t get any time with their club. I’m just saying give them a chance.

Posted from  Canada

To me, this exercise of testing players is too late. We have a good core of players. The problem with our defense won’t be solved by Vlaar or Marcellis. They are too young to carry the responsibility for a better build up. Heitinga took 4 years (of which he was injured maybe 2) to live up to his talent. Let’s not injure their self esteem. I think Maduro was brought to the fore by Van Basten too early and that’s part of Maduro’s form crisis.

I do think Marco was too late in changing the playing style. I can’t see him experiment with yet another style, but I am convinced that playing 4 defenders vs two or less strikers is bad management. I am all for two killer markers (Ooijer and Bouma?) and one center back with build up skills (Heitinga). Mathijsen should be left home.

You then can use three “holding” midfielders, of whom two play wide, to keep the play wide and allow for the triangles in the combinations. Gio is perfect for the left spot, De Zeeuw/Afellay could cover the right. Sneijder could be center midfielder. In front of these two you can play Seedorf and Vaart as playmakers and v Persie and Nistelrooy upfront.

But, although this may sound a logical strategy, I can’t see Van Basten try something new yet again.

So, the EC is either going to be a terrible failure (personal mistakes and/or form issues) or a wonderful success (due to the skills and talent of Persie, Vaart, Nistelrooy…)

Posted from  Australia

Jan, Basten has tested the players more than enough. No more testings, you are right.
Unstable performance of defense could be cure by 3:3 defense pack I believe as you do.
Bouma, Heitinga and Ooijer believed to be best available back line.
Holding mid-field! I’d rather drop Sniejder for De Zeeuw at the middle spot and leave the right holder for De Jong or Afellay.
Sneijder will have to fight for a one man play maker spot with Seedorf, who impress me more. Parsie looks to be at his worse time at the left wing, openning window for Robben and Babel, Ruud has to show some cutting edges to Huntelaar for central striker while vaart looks easy on the right.

Posted from  Australia

Well said!

Posted from  Australia

Journalist Jack van Gelder told on tv that Huntelaar took a plane to Barca yesterday… the man is weel informed so there could be some truth in this story

Posted from  Netherlands

But, did KJ go there to meet with Barca or with Real???

Posted from  Australia

fair point Jan; dont know - i actually think Huntelaar can play another season in Holland, he still needs to learn some more…but eh; once Barca or Real come into the picture i can imagine Huntelaar wanting to leave

Posted from  Netherlands