Scotland – Oranje, 2nd half…

Imagine a world cup wihout Messi (apperantly he was very poor in this game) Ronaldo and Zlatan…..3 of the best players in the world !

Posted from  Singapore

A couple of comments for the match

1/ Oranje below standard today. Not the flowing attractive football that I know of

2/ Now I can see with my own eyes how slow and clumpsy Oijer was. He needs to be remove

3/ AS MUCH AS I LIKE VAN DER VAART, HE WAS BEING AN ASS WASN’T HE? SNATCHED THE BALL FROM HUNTELAAR…THAT WAS NOT SPORTMANSHIP.

Posted from  United States

@Carlos: Just proves it is a team sport my friend. There’s no I in Team. And yes fully agree on Oijer. Don’t know why Bert can’t see is a complete turtle. Imagine what Arshavin or a Theo Walcott will do with him?

Bert’s doing a few things that could bite him in the butt in the long run:

Loovens isn’t getting enough playing time. He could be our #1 at that spot right now. He won’t get that experience if Bert doesn’t play him. Ditto for Braafheid.

Stop giving Mendes da Silva and Babel so many chances! They are NOT the right guys for this job!

Right now, van der Wiel is our only natural RB; Bert needs to either move Heitinga back to CB or focus more on Johnny’s performance at RB or else he will never improve. You can’t just stick him there and expect a near-perfect game. He’d be an OK backup to VDW at this stage, nothing more unless he is better-trained at RB.

Kuyt is NOT a top-line striker, he’s a winger (but of course you all knew that).

Van der Vaart needs steady playing time SOMEWHERE if he’s not getting it in Madrid. Since Sneijder’s injury seems to be re-aggravated, now is as good a time as ever.

I like Steks and now I can safely say I like Vorm too. Keep him around, he could be big with a top club soon. Plus, keep an eye out for Vermeer and Krul, Velthuizen doesn’t compare to them.

And for God’s sake, just call Ruud van Nistelrooy already! We could use a finisher like him after all the blown chances we’ve had in the past few games. He can still be our man.

I really think VM wanted to win and now we know he does not experiment much (perhaps one or 2 things per game). In the end though 8 wins is not bad. I know people have been saying this group was easy but give me a break there are many easy groups this year (Slovakia’s, Italy’s, Spain’s, Germany’s except for Russia, etc) so this argument does not hold.
I too agree with some of the earlier comments and to answer Rami who hasn’t seen the match, I do think we learned a few things:
1. VD Wiel is the real deal. This is virtually unanimous on this blog.
2. Ooijer is not the real deal but unfortunately I am afraid he will be the man next summer. We can bitch and moan all we want but he will never let him go unless Feyenoord wins the eredivisie and Vlaar is the man winning the trophy for them (I would even put my love of Ajax to rest if Vlaar could be delivered to the national team!!)
3. Gio: I TOTALLY AGREE with JEROEN, I am sure Jeroen is right. Gio is a very nice guy and must contribute to the atmosphere on the team. It may be a big price to pay though in the end when we have to face players like Lennon, Arshavin, Robinho and so on.
4. de Zeuw very good replacement as holding MF better than Schaars. So if de Jong or VB get hurt or suspended he can fit in quite nicely. He could have played better but was still good enough.
5. VDV can also come in and replace Wes if needed. In fact he could start some games giving each other rest during the WC. I really don’t think that under VM they will be used at the same time on the field.
6. The attack doe snot work with Kuijt and VP both out of position. So he hopefully will realize that VP should playing the center and Kuijt on the right.
7. Elia is the man. Fantastic news to have a weapon like him. Again if VP, Robben, Kuijt are in yellow card trouble or injured (players who are all injury prone except for Kuijt) Elia can step in and start without any problem. Jan, Elia plays week in and week out at HSV and is dangerous throughout. So I don’t think he was good today because the scotts were tired.

Posted from  United States

Finn, we know already what will those types of player will do to Oijer…2008 Euro vs Russia is the perfect example.
They played well collectively but the defense had at time very shaky moments and errors,were too late to cover opponents running into the penalty box,and crosses,and cleared the ball badly at times…and luckily Vorm was there.
Although this lineup worked tonight, it doesn’t look that much different from that of the Euro. Fast teams and lethal strikers can punish us with the slightest mistakes.
I want to see the relentless will from the players, and unmatched toughness from the defenders, and never let our opponents control our ball movement and fluidity.
Elia style of play suits us very well!
Bert Van Marwijk, you real test is to provide a rock solid defense, and inspire the players with the hunger to win and fight and fight even on our off days, and never settle!

Posted from  United States

stekel

v.d.wiel-mathij-vlaar-braafheid
——-van bommel
—sneijder——van der vaart
-robben—v.p or Kjh—-elia

van persie has better through balls and teamplay but kjh can finish more chances so i cant choose

it is painfull to se gio in the leftback position.and kuyt as a central striker.Hope bouma recovers and replace gio.OOiger has to give a way for the newcpmers such as vlaar and loovens.None of the senior players are wC or Ec winners.so what if their experience????.After losing an important match in WC we will recognise that.thats the way we lost the previous Wcs and ECs.
i have mentined several times this before but i am forced to put this line up again again.
3Gks
Stekelenburg
Vorm
Velthuizen
7Diffenders
Brapheid
Bauma
Mathjenson
Bulahruz
Vlaar
Heitinga
Van der weil
11 mid feilders
Vanpersie
Roban
Vaart
Znijder
Vanbommel
Schaars
Dejong
De-Guzman
Elia.
Castelen.
kuyt.
2strikers
Ruud van nestelrooy
Hantlaar…….
Back ups
Marcelis
Emmanuelson
Drenthe
Afaleey.

Posted from  India

my first eleven would be
————–stekelenburg—————-

Van derweil——Heitinga—-Mathjenson—-Brapheid

——————De jong———————–

De guzman———Znijder———-Elia——

————-Vanpersie—-Huntlaar———-

Subs
After70 min-znijder=Vaart
Huntlaar=Castelen-promoting vanpersie as striker

Posted from  India

I truly believe that the reason why van Marwijk kept keeping VDV and Hunter on the bench is because he wants them to fight for the starting positions in their clubs. (Same situation but Sneijder and Robben already found new clubs and starred in their debuts) He knows what they are capable of but he also needs them to be match fit. Note that he did bring the two on as subs every time.

I understand Kuyt is not great alone in the front, but take a step back and think, if Ruud is not returning, and if Hunter is not fit/injured during WC, who is the backup? We really don’t have that many centre forwards to use at the moment. I believe that’s why van marwijk insists on trying out Kuyt at the front.

What about Schaars? I didn’t watch the game vs England but I understand he didn’t play well. Will he have more chances with Bert? Is he WC material?.

I bet Ruud will be in the final squad, mark my words!!!.

Schaars is excellent – he had an off day. He/Demy/Mendes ALL got their start with Oranje and I think de Zeeuw did the best so far. again its a luxury to have so many good midfielders and dont shrug off de silva too quick, he may just become the best holder of them all. Dont judge players by only one or even 2 performances. Form is Temporary, Class is permanent.

Posted from  Singapore

By the way I was very impressed with Vorm – he did wonderful, that double safe was world class. vd Wiel was GREAT in the build up and a Reizeger to be. However Elia stood out and like someone said here. Everytime he gets the ball we expect something to happen. Imagine Robben and Elia in one team together. The Scotsman gave Elia a 5 out of ten. Now if that is not sour grapes I dont know what is.

Posted from  Singapore

Cause i have a sense for tradition, here are my notes

Vorm – 7,5 Looked pretty good, was lucky but deserved to be…had one strange save at the end of the game

v.d. Wiel – 7 Looked ok, should work on his crosses but was happy to see him ‘going over the wings’somethimes…looked ok in defense

Ooijer – 7,5 Im still confused when it comes to Ooijer, agree with people who say he can play with static attackers better…but this was a good performance and his experience shows

Mathijsen – 6 Really still dont know what to make of Mathijsen, he never looks solid but i think he have few other options and he must have some qualities for playing every week at HSV

Gio – 6 vMarwijk should not play Gio, just because hes getting too old, vMarwijk should put Braafheid in right now and give the guy the experience he needs for playing in the WC10

De Jong – 6,5 Played pretty mediocre, didnt see him do anything really wrong but his passing wasnt good

De Zeeuw – 4 Had an absolute shocker…nothing he did was good, his passing was awful, lets hope hell play better games for us in the future

Robben – 6 Should start working on his finishing, should have killed the game of a few times but his finishing was poor

Sneijder – 4 Far below par for his abilities…didnt look sharp, his passing wasnt good and he couldnt get any flow going on midfield

Van Persie – 5 Didnt see much of Robin this game…looked a bit out of it

Kuyt – 7,5 Looked pretty good, a lot of nice little touches, still think he isnt a real striker but he can hold the ball up front very well, would have given him an 8 if it wasnt for his dive (yes it was a dive Jan)

Subs:
Elia – 8 Enough said about the guy, very impressive

Actually felt a bit sorry for the Scots, i have a soft spot for them…again not a brilliant game for us but it will do

Posted from  Netherlands

Thanks Goose – always look forward to your ratings – dont agree with de Zeeuw – but the rest agree. Likewise I wished the Scots would go through they are a lovely bunch of supporters as all of Amsterdam knows (I did a commisseration post on the Scotland Blog). Guess now we start hoping Finn’s Vikings make it thru – how nice it would be if Finn’s team knock off the Portu-guests !

Posted from  Singapore

@Carlos; you thought deZeeuw played ok??

off topic; Beenhakker was sacked as Poland manager

Posted from  Netherlands

@Carlos: Appriciate your support. Unfortunately it is pretty much down to quantum mathematics and weird fuzzy logic for Norway not to end up the worst no 2’s, hence get excluded as well. But as Lazarus must have said once, stranger things have happened.

However should we make it aginst all odds, I would love seeing big John Carew give Ronaldo one big old kick up the arse, and that is not just referring to the score.

Goose, I thought he played OK, better than Schaars & Mendes on their debut. A couple of interchanges near and into the box looked good. He also hustled a lot which made the opposition hurry their passing. Often these things are noticed unless you’ve been a coach or a “spotter” (scout).

Posted from  Singapore

@jan
quincy and de ridder never made it to orange senior squad

Posted from  United States

@jan dont compare with quincy,vandermade,de ridder to Elia….Previously elia was a flop,his growth was steady unlike the formentioned three.so he learned from his mistakes.For me he is a team player and plays with his heart for orange,thats makes me more happy.he plays for the team like vanpersie,like castelen,like vaart and unlike roban,old days ruud van nestelrooy,Znijder etc.and this guy is fearless,that is also important.

Posted from  India

well, i dont think well get an agreement on deZeeuw for this one (Jan/Carlos), i think we have a major problem on midfield… but things can always get better… as long as Engelaar or Mendes dont play i still have some hope i was very dissapointed in Schaars, i really believe(d) in him…i reckon he needs another change

Posted from  Netherlands

Overall good game but since I just read Goose’s rating of Kuyt I just had to point this out.

Kuyt gave a couple of bad passes that ended several promising attacks (I remember at least one attack being saved by Robben’s speed after a pass by Kuyt that was too short, but that wasn’t the first time he was short, too slow or off-target, even short combinations).

He missed getting that uncontested header on target.

He was pretty unimaginative with his high crosses into the box since he should know that the scots were too strong in the air there, but often these crosses were last resorts anyway after getting himself into a difficult position by not combining quickly enough with the others around him.

I guess he earned his 90 minutes with that first shot on the post (excellent shot).

My thoughts about who to play:

Huntelaar > Elia > RvN (if he has scored a few at Madrid) > Kuyt

If playing with Elia, vPersie in the central striker position. Robben on the right. If vPersie can’t score, you have Huntelaar to bring. If Sneijder is having a bad game, bring Huntelaar, drop vPersie to nr. 10.

Kuyt only for desperate situations (extra striker, when force is required to struggle a goal in against tight defences).

We have way too much quality up front to be playing with Kuyt, I don’t understand this. Maybe vMarwijk is keeping the most dangerous formation as something to keep up his sleeves for the WC.

Posted from  Netherlands

@Jan, I agree with Michel-Olivier that we can’t compare Elia to the others. It is day and night. But I also agree to give him a little more time and not rush him. On the other hand, Wes was rushed into the national team and look at him. Elia should be able to handle it. He is the one who single handedly destroyed Germany u21 (future euro champs) last March!!

Posted from  United States

i’m annoyed with van marwijk. i think he’s treating huntelaar unfairly. kuyt and van persie his ex-feyenoord boys, always get to start every game and now it seems kuyt has taken hunter’s position as central striker, despite the fact huntelaar is the most effective CENTRAL striker oranje has. he already has one of best goalscoring records for oranje of ALL TIME at this point in time (on par with bergkamp, and better than kluivert, van Basten AND van nistelrooy) despite not starting every game

http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/169761/Huntelaar-in-Oranje-gelijk-met-Bergkamp-en-Neeskens.htm

yet van marwijk only gives him 6 minutes against scotland, that’s pathetic. what does he expect anyone to do in such little time. he’s just spoiling the guy’s goal per game record while he continues to start less effective central strikers in his place. IMO it should be one or the other (van persie or kuyt) on the pitch at any one time, not both. the favouritism should stop or it will come back to bite holland in the ass, use the most effective players for each position regardless of how much of a big ‘name’ they are. holland’s starting forward line should be

11-ROBBEN – 9-HUNTELAAR – 7-VAN PERSIE / KUYT
(depending on tactical approach, either SKILL or WORKRATE on the RW)

OR 7-ELIA – 9-HUNTELAAR – 11-ROBBEN
(potentially most lethal, 2 SPEEDY wingers + CLINICAL two-footed striker)

have sneijder playing just behind, and thats all the dutch needs to potentally wreak HAVOC on any team, because then you’d have the right BALANCE. plus by now he should also have experimented more with players who could potentially sort out the problems in defence and not be so complacent. other than that its ok but i really hate his favouritism towards certain players. use the most effective players for each position!