grzt

I fully agree with the Overmars/Rep and Robben comparison. To me, a real winger is the man who takes on his opponent and makes it till the back line, to cross the ball into the box. The Robben’s of this world are players positioned on the wingers’ spot, but they will dribble from the line to the center of the pitch, trying to combine, to shoot or to further dribble to the goal. Different type of player. So, using Babel or Robben or Kuyt in a 4-3-3 system doesn’t mean you’re actually playing the Old School 4-3-3… If you know what I mean? It’s becoming a lot of rhetoric, this 4-3-3 thing.

Even with 5-4-1 you can play dominant attacking football, it’s the EXECUTION that counts. And bloody hell, Marco… You played in a 4-4-2 AC Milan and Oranje (’88).

Now, Marco says he doesn’t want to waste time on experimenting. Fair enough. But when he started, he should’ve, because now we’ll never know if it would have worked… Not handy…

Sorry guys, ranting and raving…

@PR: comment about Robben is true, always thought of him as a classic winger but now that he plays for Chelsea hes more like a attacking midfielder, behind the lonely Drogba..
the comment about Michels is also true, thats what he actually said…think the secret to it all (4-3-3) is total football…the midfield is very crusial, all positions should be interchangeable(?)… i mean what is a winger? it can be a defender running up, it can be a midfield player..
i think 4-3-3 is still a very interesting system, esp. for us dutch, but we have to be realistic aswell, just play your best defenders-midfieldplayers and attackers and make the best team/system around them

gtrz

But as you would agree:
- We do not have wingers of the same calibre now. Forget Johnny Rep and Rensenbrink, we do not have a Marc Overmars now. Again Robben is more of an attacking midfielder than a pure winger (I am open to correction on this). Without wingers who can stretch the defence (and not necessarily compete with the striker in the D) the 4-3-3 reduces its effectiveness.

- The kind of allround creativity needed to make 4-3-3 a success (this includes the complete fluidity of motion between midfield + attack and above all an understanding of each others’ responsibilities) is more difficult to cultivate now. Rinus Michels used to say that the left back cannot fall asleep when I am discussing strategies for the right wing (correct me on this ).
The golden generation of 74 and 95 had most of the players playing under the Ajax umbrella, so the synergy was much more natural and less imposed.

Goose I really liked this “were does that leave ‘the system’, its just numbers..”

Rami…I am sorry to miss out Emanuelson. He is an exciting left back who can move much more smoothly to the attack as needed.Your comparison of Sneijder to fabregas is pretty interesting. Both are short statured players, comfortable in anchoring the midfield and have good shots of both the feet. Fabregas also is the cornerstone of Arsene Wenger’s 4-5-1.

maybe also sneijder in the place of seedorf, hence put sneijder as our true playmaker.. his playing reminds me of fabregas’ and this is where ud see fabregas play, and where u see seedorf play in milan, as an attacking midfielder.

so:

heitinga, boulah, bouma, van bronckhorst(emanuelsson)

van bommel, sneijder

seedorf, van persie, van der vaart

van gol

with three great attacking options waiting to come on : robben, huntelaar, kuyt)

I hope someday we’ll get to see this formation u talked about. Im getting sick and tired of 4-3-3 honestly… cuz we really dont have the players for it. And for many reasons in my opinion, theres not a big diff between a 4-2-3-1, and a 4-3-3 .. but the former will suit our players way better.

Goose: you are very right when u say vdv is a complete player.. If it were me, id make that guy captain, as he should be.. he’s been magnificent lately.

Well,finally van Basten admitted his big mistake and is forgetting about his big ego. That has to be an achievement for him but I really hope he learned the lesson and hands Ruud the importance that he has to have in the team as well as Seedorf because since Seedorf´s come back to the team van Basten has used him only as a bench player preferring Landzaat and Afellay above Seedorf. Some players have more importance than others, that is the truth and Ruud is one of them, perhaps someday Huntelaar or Kuyt might reach that level but today they are still far from Ruud´s level. I am very happy to read this news. Ruud-Ruud-Ruud-Ruud!!!!!!

with replacements like robben,affelay,huntelaar and boulah