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Robin the new JC

October 21st, 2006 | By: Jan | 35 Comments »

Johan Dersken’s new column in VI magazine. Getting all worked up about “another” new Johan Cruyff. We had Rensenbrink, Jantje Peters, Frans van Rooy, Mario Been, Marco van Basten, Dennis Bergkamp, Rafael van der Vaart and now Robin van Persie gets to wear the mantle.

Here we go…

“Holland has another super-talent. A player who will inspire thousands of youngsters and will become a legend after his career is over. The 23 years old Robin van Persie lifts Oranje to a higher level and does that without playing on his strongest position. In a free role just behind the forwards will be the spot where his effectiveness will be maximal.

For the time being, he is used as the man for all seasons by van Basten but that’s just a matter of time. When he gets his central position this growth diamond will really shine. On the wings, he is better than the classic winger, as center striker he is more threatening than Huntellaar, Vennegoor, Kuyt or van Nistelrooy. Van Persie is a phenomenan, in all ways a more complete player than any of the other internationals.

Moulijn, Keizer, Gullit, van Basten, Rijkaard and Bergkamp were great and charismatic players. In the hierarchy of Dutch top players, they were sub-top though. The ultimate super players were Abe Lenstra, Faas Wilkes, Johan Cruyff and Willem van Hanegem.

Cruyff’s genius was that apart from being a super player individually, he also made the team better and his teammates better players.

Holland never saw a better and more complete player, better than Pele, Di Stefano or Maradona, but then…I am somewhat biassed. Within Oranje, Cruyff had a priceless right hand man in Van Hanegem. De Kromme couldn’t and wouldn’t compete with Cruyff for the ultimate leadership in Oranje but was without a doubt a super player himself.

I never saw a better midfielder. Strong with the ball, an all seeying eye and extremely tough in the duels. He could defend like the best defenders, attack like a striker.

And now we can add van Persie to the list. We will head into a beautiful future with this extra-ordinary player.

The Feyenoord legion loved the youngster when he first came on the pitch. He showed his charisma and gusto from day 1. His team mates couldn’t really appreciate his attitude and the management of Feyenoord had great difficulties to keep the angry young man in tow. He clashed with trainers, referees and team mates and he needed to leave. It seems he’d go to PSV for some time, until Arsenal picked him up. Wenger knew exactly how to handle the streetwise artist and managed him carefully. The faith Wenger had in van Persie payed big time, with exceptional performances.

Today, van Persie is not longer a question mark in Arsenal’s squad. The youngster plays alongside Henry. He now lives with his wife in a fancy suburb of London and even became a muslim.

And although he never played on his fave position in Oranje, he can’t be missed. He will add value on any position in the team and it won’t be long till Marco van Basten will declare van Persie to be the heart of the squad. He will be the linking pin, the playmaker, the dreh-und-angle-punkt. The man to lead his team mates and to break open the match with one brilliant move. This will solve a lot of problems for the team manager, but will also add a new problem to the list.

Because with van Persie in midfield, Wesley Sneijder – another great player, but more sub-top (see above) then super-top – will have to stand down and make place for Robin. How van Basten will solve that issue? Don’t know, and I don’t have to. That’s the good thing. We have a team manager who’s responsible for that. In the mean time, van Persie quietly absorbs all the storms and tempests surrounding Oranje and will promote Oranje to a world class act again, like Lenstra, Wilkes, Cruyff and van Hanegem did before him.”

Freely translated from VI magazine.

Tags: Robin van Persie, The Netherlands

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Comments

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 35 comments.

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By Robert | October 24th, 2006 at 9:29 am

Of course Gullit rates higher than van Hanegem. I don’t even see them as being close. Bergkamp IMO should be further towards the top too.
An observation here would be that most of these players can be grouped in an era. Rijkaard Van basten and Gullit being one era. Cruijf, Neeskens and van Hanegem being another. Van Persie if he is going to make that list has not found anyone there to join him in this era.
It could turn out to be Huntelaar but obviously the jury is still out on that one. It will in my opinion not be Robben. He has got the talent but I think you will see his career grind to a halt at Chelsea. I think he is one of those that went to a top club too young and never got a chance to finish developing as a player. Now he is but an occaisional sub. A true waste of talent. You can see the same thing happening now with Salomon Kalou. Yeah they are making the money but I think that this is short term thinking. Notice how much better van Bommel has started playing since he is a regular at a team again. Being a benchwarmer at a top club is killing a lot of up and coming talent in my opinion and I hope some of the young talent we have right now doesn’t make that mistake. You have to play and have a significant “role” at a team to improve your game. Unfortunately it seems that some clubs have pockets deep enough to stockpile way more players than they need which works against the development of these players.

By Prabal Rakshit | October 24th, 2006 at 12:37 pm

Had written a comment on this thread on why the early comparison of RVP with Cruyff seems to be a bit premature.
The comment was awaiting moderation and it was never approved, I guess.
Is it possible to find out why? Just wanted to know if I have violated any blog norms/rules.
Thanks to the moderator for his/her time.

Posted from United States

By jip jaap stam | October 24th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

i think there is an outside chance jaap stam could be a top ten candidate… defenders often get overlooked and he has done it all at club level and has twice been recognized as the best defender in the champions league… of course i am biased because he is one of my favorite players but he is undoubtledly the best defender to come out of the netherlands since rijkaard… dont think it would go over well in holland if a muslim (van persie) captained the dutch team …

Posted from Canada

By Jan | October 24th, 2006 at 7:07 pm

Hmmm…the generation gap shows here… Funny. To me, Gullit was a limited player, but he was very important to the teams he played in. Let’s first say that 1) it is hard to compare players, (there so many factors involved, like coaches, other players, etc) and 2) they played in different era’s as was duly noted by another poster, so yeah… It’s just intellectual masturbation, this comparing stuff… but it’s fun.
So, to me, the player Gullit was limited. His strengths were his incredible athletic power and his charisma/leadership. His runs, his power, his finishing was great. No doubt about it. He is in the same league as Shearer, Battistuta, Rummenigge, Henry…
Van Hanegem was a pure 100% football player. Although he only used his left, he could do anything with that foot. His passing, his 40 meter crosses, his freekicks were astounding. Platini eat your heart out! His vision of the game, pacing, passing, he was a strategist, more so than any other player (bar Cruyff). He had the mental strength like Neeskens, was a great header like Geels, etc etc. The thing with comparing cups and championships obviously is that De Kromme played in a era that transfers to exotic clubs was not that common. Cruyff and Neeskens to Barcelona, Rep to Bastia, Rensenbrink to Anderlecht… Players like Keizer, Swart, Moulijn, van Hanegem would today be hunted by Madrid, Juve, Man Utd, Bayern, etc etc. And there these guys would have won even more cups than Gullit and Bassie together! I mean, they (Feyenoord) won the EC1 cup and the Worldcup! In those days, that was a major feat, done on the basis of football. Today, teams invest tremendous money in players for merchandising reasons and almost buy themselves trophies in that way (Real Madrid). So comparing cups will not work for me in this discussion.

Jaap Stam to me is one of the best defenders ever. Period. But does not belong in the list of Best Football players. He tops the list of best defenders .

Posted from Australia

By Daniel | October 24th, 2006 at 8:01 pm

hey, now. Defenders are football players too, no? I would make a place for Jaap Stam. (Put van der Sar on there too!)

This comparing footballers of different times gets difficult. The game has changed so much. It’s become so much faster, and technique has evolved. I mean, Sure Faas Wilkes and Abe Lenstra are Dutch legends from way back. Famous by all accounts.

But can you really say they are on par with todays players if they had to play head to head??

By Jan | October 24th, 2006 at 11:40 pm

Good point. It is hard. But to me, the best players are the ones who made the difference in the Dutch team. That would be my criterion to determine the best. Stam is not in that list. Hans van Breukelen more so than Sar. Vanenburg and Van ‘t Schip were fabulously skilled players, but lose out. My list would be:

1. Cruyff
2. Van Hanegem
3. Neeskens
4. van Basten
5. Rijkaard
6. Gullit
7. Bergkamp
8. Rob Rensenbrink
9. Frank de Boer
10.Ruud Krol

Posted from Australia

By goose | October 25th, 2006 at 3:39 am

its always a problem with these lists cause theyre horizontal, i think its best to put players in certain groups, i think we all agree Cruijff is the best we ever had but like Daniel and Jan said, its almost impossible to compare players from different eras, i never saw Lenstra or Wilkes play, its just from the stories i know
Dont know about Stam, i mean hes a top deffender but hes not that great (sorry JJStam!!), i rate F.deBoer higher cause of his passing game and his long cross (the one on Bergkamp in 1998 still brings a smile on my face everytime i see it),

for my personally Bergkamp is the best dutch player i ever saw myself but im biased, still cant figure out what he did against Newcastle with his wonder goal…

but its true that defenders dont get the credit they (sometimes deserve) in Holland, defending is still seen as a bit negative which ofcourse it isnt!!

groeten

Posted from Netherlands

By jip jaap stam | October 25th, 2006 at 4:24 pm

@ jan… does overmars or Rep rate anywhere in the top 15… 20???

I have a question for you fellow dutchmen… if holland won the infamous penalty shoot out with brazil in 98′ do you think we would have beatin zidane and co… or would we just have been 3 time world cup finalists loosing to home teams on all 3 occasions… this has always bothered me … any thoughts???

Posted from Canada

By Robert | October 25th, 2006 at 4:24 pm

@JipJaapStam – of topic
I notice you live in Canada. I do as well but travel a lot between Holland where I grew up and Canada where I now live. When I read your comment:
“dont think it would go over well in holland if a muslim (van persie) captained the dutch team ”
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see that is that here is a guy that reads the Toronto Star. In itself of course not such a bad thing but believing the crap that paper spews is, especially the series of articles depicting Holland as a country that has all of a sudden turned racist and intolerant. I have discussed soccer and Oranje with many a fellow Dutchman and I have never heard a negative mention about the guys religion or for that matter about the canibal’s religion. I don’t know if van Persie will ever become captain of this team but I seriously doubt religion will ever come into play in that decision or even that it would be an issue after.

By Jan | October 25th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

@JJS
Rep and Overmars certainly belong in the top 20. But it’s hard. Players like Kluivert, Ronald de Boer, J vt Schip, Wim Jansen, Ronald Koeman, Jan Wouters, Wim Jonk, Arie Haan… They all belong in the top 20 ).
And I agree with Robert, nobody cares about v Persie being a muslim, or players being gay or being %$&) in the @#$% with fake dildo’s… (true story)

The Dutch do object to fanatics who throw bombs and kill people, no matter what religion.

Posted from Australia

By Mike | October 26th, 2006 at 1:27 am

Can anyone tell me why Van Persie did not play in the Chamions league final. Was he suspended? Like first of all starting Lgungberg and Fabregas over him is questionable but bringing Reyes off the bench ahead of him is just plain stupid! HE is now Henry’s right hand man and soon to be the man.

Posted from Canada

By goose | October 26th, 2006 at 2:37 am

@Jan, moehahaha, go easy on our goalie my girl, please dont mention it anymore on this blog (LOL)

now on the muslim comment (please nobody take offence): Robbert, i dont know who you talk to in Holland but ill have to say JJStam is right, maybe the older generation (like Jan) doenst care and i guess it also matters if your from ‘de randstad’or not but we have some really serious issues with the muslims here, (in my city Den Haag muslims are no longer a minority), we have regular fights on certain days in the week,its weekend its like war in the bars with whites fighting muslims, now i dont know how well you know Holland but its a lot different than say 6-8 years ago… the fact that Boula chose Holland over Marocco when he had the change (all these guys have double passports) made him popular in Holland, the fact that hes almost alone in this team makes him have to compromise to us dutch which is something his countrymen arent willing to do… im sorry to say but it would be an issue among a big group of Holland fans (my generation at least) if i muslim were to be captain (sorry Jan),

now please remember that this is a personal opinion, im sure there will be countryman who differ, but you’ll have to remember that Holland has changed dramaticly these last years

now to football!!
JJStam: yes! im ofcourse not sure if we would have won but im sure we would have put on a bigger fight than the Brasilians did (still dont understand what happened there), what a great team did we have back than!! I really think that was a great opertunity to win the WC!

groet

Posted from Netherlands

By Mike | October 26th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

Holland 2
France 0

Posted from Canada

By Robert | October 26th, 2006 at 1:28 pm

Goose, if you total it up I spend 3 months there sofar this year. I am from Brabant, although on account of my work I tend to spend more time now in Amsterdam when in Holland (hard for a guy that grew up as a PSV supporter of course ) I still don’t see it coming into play or even being an issue. It would shock me if it were different but then again that is just my perception of things.

By Jan | October 26th, 2006 at 5:21 pm

@Goose
So I am “the older generation” eh? Sweet!

As for the captaincy…if MvB declares Boula captain, would people protest because he is a muslim?? Can’t believe that… Koeman was captain, and he cheated on his wife… Gullit was captain, and he smokes pot. Frank de Boer was captain and he hates animals…

Posted from Australia

By jip jaap stam | October 26th, 2006 at 11:33 pm

@robert… interesting how you call me off topic and then you say this, “The first thing that comes to my mind when I see that is that here is a guy that reads the Toronto Star”… what the hell does this have to do with anything… LOL… because i make a comment about muslims i am suddenly a reader of this newspaper ???!!! i would just like to say that i am in no way a member, reader, or an ophiliate that newspaper!!! (i do love reading the ajax monthly magizine’s when they come out!)

@goose… agreed… the fighting has got pretty bad… my brother was beaten up in the train by muslims leaving the feyenoord game one time… i left rotterdam in the late 90’s and there were a lot of muslims there then…

the fact there are muslims on the dutch team for me is not a problem… what i do have a problem with is if one of them became captain and here is why… the captain traditionally represents the country he plays for and for 90min he is in a way the leader of our country… for a muslim to captain the dutch in a tradtionally non muslim country with all the problems they have caused rubbes me the wrong way… it’s one thing to get bossed around in the pub by a group of them, but to then go home turn on the tv and then watch your beloved KNVB being bossed around by a muslim captain after seeing it in the pub… no thanks…

Posted from Canada

By Prabal Rakshit | October 27th, 2006 at 11:54 am

JJS, Goose … the comments on Muslims make interesting reading. How difficult is it to really integrate immigrants to the mainstream? France too had its own share of politically sensitive religious undercurrents, but did it prevent them from respecting Zidane? Although this is far-fetched, if Surinamese immigrants can add so much value to the colors of Oraanje, why can’t a well deserving Muslim do footballer do?
Regarding the captain being representative of the social ‘macrocosm’, I agree that the first thing for a captain is to commit himself fully to the cause of the country. There have been so many teams (in various sports) who have succeeded with ‘outsiders’ in captaincy/coaching positions? Is Arsenal comitting a grave sin by not making a British only team and in turn focussing on the best attacking flair all over the world, that too under a decade long French coach?

Posted from United States

By Samuel Knight (Oudegeest) | October 27th, 2006 at 12:28 pm

My Lord – are we seriously debating whether a Moslem could become captain of Oranje?

How many people really think that either Van Baasten or Cruijff care whom you pray to?

As the old joke goes, I don’t care who you pray to…. As long as it works.

Yes, we have racial, ethnic, and religous differences in the Netherlands (as we do everywhere, including the USA). But isn’t one of the ideals of the United Provinces inclusiveness and open-mindness? Wasn’t wonderful that hundreds of years ago, anyone of almost any religon could come to Holland and thrive.

Wouldn’t we all be very proud to see a black, Christian guy hugging a white Moslem guy – both sparkling in Orange – after they had just hooked up for a great goal? Or watch Gio and Khalid hook up wonderfully to clear the back line?

Anyway, one of the ironies of course for Nederland is that black skin does tend to look better in bright orange than pale white skin .

Skol!

Posted from United States

By Robert | October 27th, 2006 at 12:55 pm

Hmm, you misunderstood me. I meant my remark was off topic, as in not about soccer.
As for the rest of your comments, I am obviously out of tune here. Well in that case I can only speak for me. I could care less about a man’s religion. I will judge based on deeds, attitude, performance, etc.
Your experiences will paint your outlook; You are welcome to yours, but I am not going to debate you on the merits of it.

By Jan | October 27th, 2006 at 6:07 pm

@Robert
Agree, bloody hell we’re a democracy. Freedom of speech, religion etc. We should all be angry when a catholic player is skipper (read the Da Vinci Code ). This all make the division between factions and fractions bigger and bigger. I am a liberal and I don’t want a conservative captain . Or…I am gay and I want a gay captain. It’s stupid. The reason God invented football is because in football it’s okay to say: I am a Feyenoord fan and I HATE Ajax fans, but that’s just a silly thing. For the rest of it…

We come ONE ONE ONE ONE

Posted from Australia

By jip jaap stam | October 27th, 2006 at 9:31 pm

if v persie does end up being the next JC and captains the dutch, maybe i should be thankful he’s on our team and for the skill/leadership he would provide… who knows, maybe he can help bridge the divide between alot of dutch and muslims… netherlands-england coming up… hup holland….

Posted from Canada

By Dr.Mansur | October 29th, 2006 at 12:05 am

Hey guys
I remember making a comment in this site that football is a religion in Holland but never thought that religion would get into football of Holland.I am not a Dutchman,born and brought up in Dhaka,Bangladesh,Cardiologist by profession and a practising Muslim.I had never been to Holland but I am a die-hard Dutch fan for many years.Now the point of Robin van Persie becoming a muslim and might be future captain provokes questions in my mind ,like will he be a hardcore practising muslim(like Yusuf Youhana of Pakistan cricket team) or a regular day-to-day by name muslim.I beleive he will be the second one.I am a good fan of Robin, but I do not think he would be a great leader in future,so I would drop the issue here.By the way, I dont think Chelsea is not the ideal club for Robben.he should move to some club where he could play regularly.

Posted from Bangladesh

By goose | October 31st, 2006 at 5:58 am

people, i may have overreacted a bit, just wanted to tell you guys who dont live in Holland that things have certainly changed but i think i was wrong to think that it would be a big issue for a lot of people when it comes to football..it ofcourse should not be…

@Jan, you told me your grandson looked like Ronaldo (my all time favou player!!), i reackon we differ more than 30 years so yes generation gab!! LOL

@Mansur: think that as long as Robben plays well (which he really doenst at the moment) he will get picked in the first team
i think its good to be in a team like Chelsea, you should learn a lot there, btw: really dont like this whining attitude he has

grtz

Posted from Netherlands

By ferenc | October 31st, 2006 at 6:00 pm

actually,chelsea’s style and attitude tonight was a shame of football… boula wasn’t at his best… but at this time i enjoyed his mistakes:-) what a stupid referee…

Posted from Hungary