PSV Champions!!

Poor, poor Pierre…

clarence was sublime tonight. i really,really hope he will win his 4th cl. and i hope that marco watched the game tonight!

Posted from  Hungary

Ferenc:

Seedorf has been sublime for the last 5 years. The problem with Marco is that he is out of mind and his basic analysis for players are totally wrong. Why didn´t he took Seedorf, Davids, Makaay and Huntelaar to the World Cup???. Why did he bench Kromkamp at WC 06 during all the tournament when Jan Kromkamp was the starter of the qualifying campaign??? Why benching Ruud in the crucial game vs Portugal??? Why did he get into a fight with Ruud and van Bommel when they are great experienced players for the Oranje??? He is a mess…he has no capacity to lead Oranje at all and he might start Seedorf after this great season of him but the problem with van Basten is that the role that Seedorf will play for Holland will be very different to the one he has at Milan and that is the problem with van Basten. No tactical game plan, no comunication skills, he forces the players into a system and does not play his players according to his skills. He is a very bad coach and what Ancelotti can do with Seedorf, Wenger with van Persie, Hitzfield with van Bommel and son on, well, San Marco will never be able to do that because he is lost as a team manager. All the players he ignores are playing extremely well with their respective clubs, so the question is, is van Basten is capable of guiding the Dutch National team to a good end?
My answer is firm: NO!

Afther this season here I come with Oranje starters:(4-4-2 system)

1-van der Sar
——————————–

3-Mathijsen

2-Kromkamp 5-Emmanuelson

4-Bouma
——————————–
6-van Bommel

7-Afellay 8-Seedorf

10-van Persie
——————————–

9-Ruud VN 11-Huntelaar

Bench (in a team of 23, that are the ones that make the list for a big championship:
12-Stekelenburg
13-Heitinga
14-Boulahrouz
15-Gio
16-Sneijder
17-van der Vaart
18-Robben(100% fit he will be a starter, he would take van Persie as the link between midfield and the strikers and van Persie will then partner Ruud, but this season Robben was more time injured than fit)
19-Zenden or Schaars
20-Kuyt
21-Babel
22-de Zeeuw
23-Timmer

Possible replacements for any circunstances:
1-Jaliens
2-Opdam
3-De Cler
4-Ooijer
5-de Jong
6-Koevermans
7-Venegoor of Hesselink
8-Makaay
9-Maduro
10-Boateng
11-Castelen
12-The player left out between Zenden and Schaars
13-Yildirim, Leonardo or de Guzman

*Numer 13 as other possibilities is joke my friends, they do not have the talent to wear the oranje jersey! (perhaps for Marco, but not for me, look how many players can make the list so you do not have to look other places around)

@Mario: where is landzaat?

this is a very good and balanced selection,i would like to see this team!

Posted from  Hungary

Nice back line Mario, but I don’t know if Affelay has played enough at this level to be justified into the starting lineup (yet). He is a great player and has the skills to become a great future starter but he hasn’t proven much quite yet.

My ideal starting XI:

van der Sar

Kromkamp - Mathijsen - Boula - Emmanuelson

Seedorf - Sneijder - van der Vaart

Kuyt - van Nistrooy - van Persie

I think Kuyt is too much of a two way player, and far too hard working to be left at centre striker. He is most effective with the ball and is a great passer. At centre striker he is dependent on delivery from the likes of Robben which hasn’t worked. I believe this is the same reason why van Nistelrooy was unsuccessful at WC06.

Posted from  Canada

@Mario: I think Van Persie can’t play in midfield, sometimes he perform an perfect move and score, but he also lose many balls. That’s acceptable for a striker but for a midfielder, we need someone to control ball. I would prefer VDV or Sneijder at this position.
@Bruce: Is your system similar to the system Van Basten used for the WC qualification? I still don’t understand why he choose Van Persie instead of Kuyt at WC.

Posted from  United States

i like mario’s selection.

wow.. just watched milan kick the shit out of man utd.. Seedorf is definitely in a starting 11 line-up, as well as van der vaart..
Both are at the moment our best shit.

Up front, kuyt, and van gol (screw van the man, im getting used to van gol, and with that starting to like real madrid just a tiny bit)

robben is still under-paar for the moment.. hope he changes teams, and finds a fresh start like van nistelrooy did.

Van Persie is only due till next season.. In what shape he will return? i hope its just a fraction as good as his form was in before he broke the foot.

my top 11 right now are:

gk (undecided - too many options, none a perfect one

from left to right,

emanuelsson, bouma( mathijsen), boula, kromkamp

van der vaart, van bommel, seedorf

van persie

Kuyt, van nistelrooy (Huntelaar)

Posted from  Canada

lol, what an idiot i am, and since van persie is out … put sneijder in place of van der vaart, and van der vaart behind the two strikers instead of van persie.

Posted from  Canada

Clarence Seedorf has played well for like five games this season. In the rest he has been pretty bad and to say that he has been sublime for five years is just bullshit.

i think u have an argument there lerkot, a bit exaggerated though.. nonetheless, id still include him in our midfield.. sometimes, he has stuff to offer that no one can offer, and just be an over the top magical player.

Posted from  Canada

BBC report on last nights match (including a reference on Seedorf)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6618267.stm

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

seedorf= legend!! hewhy cant he play that role for holland they play our system! but i suppose we dont have a kaka and gattuso!

Posted from  United Kingdom

well, everybody is always talking about ”the free role’Seedorf has with Milan but from what i saw yesterday he does do his team duties and defenced pretty well..but ofcourse Milan is a very different team from Oranje (and Ancelotti is a very different manager altough him and vanbasten were teammates), yesterday after the game a journalist asked Cruijff if it would be an idea to built Oranjes midfield round Seedorf; Cruijff replied that 1. Seedorf was already old (looking to the future?) 2. Seedorf already had his changes in the past and didnt take them when he had the change 3. Milan plays very different from Oranje

in the past i have (at times) really hated Seedorf, he was so arrogant and f#cked up too many times (penalties etc.), but the last year ar so it looks like he has really changed as a person…hes so much muture, looks very relaxed and happy and i think it also shows in his football…why shouldnt he be our leader in Oranje, he still has a couple of good years in him and he looks to be at his best right now, we can always look at different players after EC08…whats this obsession with vanBasten on the future?? I want results now!!

@Mario; amen to your comment on vanBasten!

gzt

Posted from  Netherlands

i would build oranje around seedorf. in the past i was often disappointed with him,but in the last 2-3 years he has been performing really-really well. of course,he needs a gattuso in the team,so,we should find a player in oranje who plays the same role as gennaro. agree with goose: i want results right now and in 08 not in ten years. he’s the kind of player who does nothing during the whole game but with one superb move,pass,kick,etc decides the game. but: yesterday he did perfectly his defensive duties too.

Posted from  Hungary

being old? france 06 was built around zidane and it worked pretty well… in 2010 clarence will be 34 the same age as zidane last year - why not build the oranje around him (as captain too)and win the ec 08 and the wc10?

Posted from  Hungary

here 2 tubes on Seedorf, the second is one of the most amasing long distants goals ever (remember Haan’s goal against Italy Jan??)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKzxVXV6kE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQ6speL4Ww

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

I am with you Goose, I do want results now too. If would not have the talent, if we would lack the players or have bad players ok, we will have to wait, but we have a pretty good team, 3 Dutch players will be on the Champions League final and we have great talented players beside them. I strongly believe the problem are not the players!. I would not stand to see Holland be smashed on the field with Mr van Basten and his stupid things, of course I will be cheering for Holland but it will hurt me a lot to lose like at 2006 again and we are going into the same path. I think Mr. Kesler is playing risky games and the safest thing to do is let van Basten qualify the team and before the draw get rid of him and appoint some real coach.I am positive that will happen and a new and better era will start for Oranje.

I have one more comment:

When van Basten says that mediocre players like Leonardo and de Guzman who are not even Dutch are more than capable to make the team he is telling Dutch players, public and media that today Holland lacks the quality to compete with the best so he has to search for foreign players. I find this very serious because what Mr van Bastes is trying to do is excuse himself if he loses by saying that today we do not have the same quality as in 2000 or ten years ago. I am more than aware that today´s team is not at the level of the 2000 and 1998 team but not because of talent but experiencie. That team have players of mostly 25 and 29 years old and today´s team has players of 21 to 25 years old and just van Bommel, van Nistelrooy, Seedorf, van der Sar and Gio are the experienced guys and guess what? Only van der Sar and Gio start for Oranje because the others are on the bench or simply are not van Basten friends anymore. I am very sure that the players of today´s Oranje will achieve great things like the 2000/1998 generation and we can see it in Kuyt who is succeeding at Liverpool once he went abroad. I predict the same future to players like Huntelaar, Sneijder, Afellar, Heitinga, Schaars and of course, Robin van Persie and many more Dutch young guns. van Persie has everything to be better than Bergkamp, when Bergkamp had van Persie´s age he was still at Holland but van Persie has been abroad now for two years and now he is the second best player of Arsenal just behind Henry. In one or two years van Persie will be the best Arsenal player and one of the world´s best soccer players. We have to be pacient but this generation has the same amount of talent, skills and guts that many great Dutch teams of the past but they are in the process to get more mature and once they´ll be mature Holland will have a superb team.
Juts to finish my post, I do not find it funny when van Basten says we have to look at other players from other countries because that shows the little credit he pays to his players, if he does not think there is enough quality then he should resign, you would say that I hate van Basten, well I really don´t. I just love Oranje and I can´t stand watching how this man is destroying the team we love and then come up with some stupid excuses. When I watched the game vs Portugal I could not believe my eyes watching Ruud van Nistelrooy on the bench. He would be starter for Brazil, Germany, Spain, Italy, México, Argentina, as a center striker there is no more lethal striker than him. He has shown this year at Real Madrid that Ferguson and van Basten were totally wrong, they thought he was old. Well, to be 30 is a perfect age to still be on top of your game with experiencie and as a player I love van Basten but as a coach I will never forgive him for benching Ruud in such a terrible way and at a World Cup and let his team lose the game. If we would have won everything would be different but he benched Ruud the whole game, he seemed like he wanted to lose, it is unbelievable how the man kept his job, and although I respect Cruyff a lot I am very sad that Johan still supports van Basten as a coach when he was the architect of Holland failure at the WC and is the main responsible now for the bad game Holland shows on the pitch but it is too easy for him to excuse himself and say we do not have the talent. Last game vs Slovenia with van Nistelrooy, van Bommel and Seedorf as starters would have produced a total different result that a 0-1 victory but with van Bssten as a coach we have never had our best 11 players on the pitch at the same time.
There have been many mistakes and the one at the World Cup was the last thing for me to tolerate. When I knew he was not taking Seedorf, Makaay, Davids and Huntelaar at the World Cup I started to think the man was wrong and when he benched van Nistelrooy vs Portugal I understant that he was totally wrong he was arrogant, stubborn and did not care for the millions of people who love Oranje. If he does not care for us, why should we care for him???. If Holland go to Euro 2008 with van Basten as coach perhaps he will fight at the quarter of finals with Robben or van Persie or simply decide that van der Sar can be benched by Stekelenburg, actually I do not know what he will do because the guy has lost his common sense and I can´t see Holland guided and directed by a person who is not considering the best for his team because he is to proud to accept his mistakes. van Basten, as a player you were a great legend, as a coach you are on the way to be a sorry legend, I hope you do change your attitude but out of Holland, I want results now, not “some day”.

Wow guys…

Posted from  Australia

I always thought Clarence was a bit of a prima donna. Always that easy-going pace and all… Most of you won’t remember that Clarence wasn’t always sure of his starting spot at Ajax. And when he left, Van Gaal didn’t really try hard to keep him onboard for Ajax. On the other hand, Capello said (years ago) that at every club he signed (Capello that is) he would check if Seedorf was available. Hence Clarence’ move to Madrid. But hey, the man can handle a ball. He sees it all, has a good shot (and a good header to, if you remember his assist for Kaka). Still, it’s true that he is not the best option for a 3 man midfield. I think the fact that MvB (and JC) are religious about playing 4-3-3 is a hinderance for Seedorf in Oranje. At AC Milan, Kaka and Pipo play up front, Seedorf plays in the playmakers position and the rest - bar none!! - play in their service. Only then, Seedorf can excell. And yes, he does cover his bases and works for the team, but there are many occasions where he just takes a breather. Or two. Or three. Or four

Posted from  Australia

sure,clarence excells in 4-4-2. but if this is the case,marco and cruyff should forget this old-fasfioned 4-3-3 because he’s from far our best midfielder. we are no more in the seventies. world class. he’s a little bit lazy,but personally i prefer a brilliant technician having a vision of the game to a hardworker but technically not so perfect player. the solution is simple (haha): we have to find a dutch gattuso:-)

jan: don’t forget that he was only 19 when he left ajax.

Posted from  Hungary

Ferenc, I am sure you are right about forgetting the 4-3-3. I love the 4-3-3 system when you have the wingers. I remember van Gaal´s Ajax with Overmars on the left and Finidi on the right, they drove every defender they had in front crazy and that Ajax team was the best in the world from 1994 to 1996. But today Holland only has one real winger in Arjen Robben, Babel plays well as a winger but I think he needs much more improvement on his game to be considered as a real starter for the Dutch. So, why do we play in a 4-3-3 system when we lack the wingers and have midfielders that do not match their game to that tactical plan? It simply does not make sense. Playing van Persie as a winger is a total waste. In Arsenal he is no winger, he plays together with Henry upfront just a little behind him and the results Wenger had by playing van Persie on that position were great before van Persie got injured. If Robien had not injured his foot perhaps he would have been the top scorer of the Premiership and that says it all: he is a natural forward, not a winger. About Seedorf: he has been playing in a system where there a lot of midfielders so he can have some space to attack freely and defend if necessary. In a 4-4-3 system he needs to defend a lot otherwise the other team will have a lot of spaces and we all know Clarence is not the best player to defend so he would need other players to do that task so he can attack and sometimes help in defence like he does at Milan. Gattuso is not a great player for me, he lacks technique, does not have the killing pass, he almost never scores but he puts his heart into the game. In my opinion he is a cheap copy of Davids. Davids had the same hunger, same passion, same attitude as Gattuso´s but what Davids had and Gattuso will never have is a great technique, that killer pass, that ball control and goal. Holland has to find a player with Gattuso´s and David´s hunger on the pitch. Any players that you guys think can have that kind of impact on the Dutch team?

Mario - Davids is still available. I know he is older and not the pitbull of old, but he is probably still our best to fill that role you are inquiring about. I think he should be on Oranje, not only for his skill, but experience and example. Ajax didn’t lose this year when Davids was playing.

Posted from  United States

Demy de Zeeuw of AZ is like that. Good mentality. Strong tackler. Very good with the ball too. And a good passer. Maybe Stijn Schaars? Feyenoord’s Danny Buys? Nicky Hoffs?

Posted from  Australia