Oranje, where are we? An analysis…

good post jan
we look like an english team that played against croats
good attacking player but lack of build up frm back 4
one solution to this problem is lets not expect gre8 things frm the holland team in the coming tournament
lets hope they will do average they go n play football probably the luck will help them (last gasp goal, deflected shot, the opponent will b without their in form player ( may b he gets injured or gets suspended) and others)
i think the more the players frm dutch league the better will b the result i kno almost all of the players play in the foreign league they all r fantastic n they have smelled a bit of sucess in their carreer . the players like wesley robin n rafel catelen who havent had much of trophies can deliver more n more as compared to rvn n seedy
the defender we see in epl spl bundesliga r horrible so b prepared to see some blunder by them in the EC2008 the defenders frm dutch league i think r good
the draw will have some role in oranje’s fate i hope we may b drawn with two strong team n one a bit weak team
so far the performance against weaker ones havent been that good but wen they come up against france spain italy n germany may b portugal too this time round they can deliver more

Posted from  Nepal

comprehensive article, as usual..

one thing always bothers me with ur analysis though.. i think that the argument of marco was naive and promised too much is an overrated argument. sounds a bit like the team failed marco and not the other way around. i believe with another manager attractive football could have been a much more feasible task. i honestly see that our current manager is not getting the most out of our players. maybe the defenders are close to be a hopeless case and will hardly improve any more than that; but much more could have been achieved with our attacking midfielders and strikers.

we’ve changed line-ups too many times, switching formations, and the best players we have never played all together before recently.. During matches we make several unexplainable substitutions.. etc.

and more importantly i feel, we have an attitude on the pitch thats really mediocre. the players always look mentally more comfortable playing for their clubs than for their country.. Shameful!! And i think u attested to that a few times before, one i recall off the bat, when u mentioned how van nistelrooij went from having a relationship of admiration towards VB to one of mere professionalism. to me that’s sad, but says a lot about how the attitude has changed throughout VBs tenure as manager. i see no passion, no determination anymore, just ppl going to work and coming back home afterwards to their respective clubs.

i think we do have a chance of winning the EC, albeit a small one. But only because a lot of other big teams have been mediocre as well.. it’s probably as possible as bolton achieving 6 straight wins right now in the EPL.. unlikely but could happen. more likely would be a 2004-like tournament. Some small nation delivering the goods consistently only for the month of june/july 2008.

Posted from  Canada

Although i am one who also worships teh 4-3-3 i think van basten could use an offesive 3-5-2 which would have the following players:

—————melchiot———ooijer————-boulahrouz————————-

———————–vanbronkhorst————seedorf——————————-

—-vandervaart————————————————–robben—————
———————————–sneijder——————————————–

——————–v.persie——————-v.nistlrooy—————————–

Posted from  Switzerland

p.s if he makes teh following players stick together and learn to play with one an other with well thought up tactics we can have a good summer. peace guys.

Posted from  Switzerland

I enjoyed that post Jan

Thanks Tjeerd…

Posted from  Australia

Nice one Jan;

about your comment on growth; think its just the individuel players that have grown and with it their level of play in Oranje… as a team there has been zero growth, one of my main problems with vanBasten

on realism; maybe its the one positive thing that for a change we wont start the EC thinking we have a good change of winning..kind of a underdog situation where you can grow as a team during the Champs..

on other big teams; you should have shown the results we had v big teams…Italy-loss; port-loss; Arg-draw… the german comment really hurts btw! those germans are strong again ..*&(*&*%$@$#@$#&

@marc; did you mix up Seedorf and vBronckhorst (left-right?), think youll need a replacement for Robben, he has lost it, pretty offensive line-up sure you wanna play like that against the big boys??

@rami; amen!!
about mentality; Sneijder told VI magazine that the problem was that nobody had any guts (geen lef), nobody dared taking risks…

“Some small nation delivering the goods consistently only for the month of june/july 2008.”; you mean Holland!!??? haha

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

@Goose… good point, I should have included Oranje’s record against big teams… They all say they are hungry to play big teams, but based on what… Hhmmm….

Posted from  Australia

Jan, this was a terrific analysis, and the responses have been very interesting as well. As I have read the various comments, certain thoughts developed regarding the issue of motivation. Do Dutch footballers have the drive, determination and commitment to achieve success at the highest level of international competition? Do Dutch footballers define success differently from athletes of other countries, such as Brazil or Germany? When the Netherlands national team loses in major tournaments, do the athletes feel emotional pain from such losses?

Would there, indeed, be any difference to the high level professional footballer in Holland if the team won? Would the fans love the team less? Would the athlete make more money, or be more attractive on the transfer market? How, if at all, would the athlete’s life change due to a win, rather than a loss? In essence, it may not make a difference at all whether or not the Dutch team wins the next EC, and that fact in itself means something significant regarding motivation of individual players and team performance.

The Netherlands’ seems stuck on the philosophy, so well expressed in David Winner’s wonder book BRILLIANT ORANGE, that beautiful football is more important than winning football. Cruijff has often expressed the thought that it did not matter that the Netherlands lost to Germany in ‘74, because the Dutch played wonderfully attractive football and are the team that people remember from that tournament.

So, second place, third place, fourth place, quater-finals, all are OK as long as the football is BEAUTIFUL! If that is the mission, then the Dutch have succeeded as to that definition. Yet again, Winners suggests that the Dutch were possibly the “best” team in each of the major tournaments from 1990 to 2000, yet failed to win any one of them–often losing, by the way, on penalty kicks. Once again, if that is the mission and attitude of the coaches and players, then the results reflect the motivation.

I again ask the question, is that why the matches are played? Would the results have been different if the player “ambition” had been to WIN, WIN, WIN. The Germans and Brazilians have that motivation, and their record speaks for itself. Have the Dutch become too “soft”, lacking in motivation necessary to perfect skills, tactics and to develop highest level of physical conditioning? I do not know the answer, but am interested in the opinion of others.

Posted from  United States

Ahh geez, I could go on and on like a street corner preacher on this topic, it’s the very thing that makes my blood boil. Due to a lack of time I’ll keep this short and potentially add later.

First, the very structure of the domestic leagues that high level players are involved in AND more importantly the shortage of time the national coaches have with their high level players seriously detracts from the level of team play and development during qualification. National coaches are nothing more of substitute teachers at this point. This is not meant as a “pass” on MVB performance. Second, (or third depending on how particular your all are about run on sentences) the very nature of the game (football) and the potential for a “nobody” to win compounds the first point. Particularly when you add the heart and will of the underdog. Which brings us back to Jan and Bobs point.

There comes a point when you have to throw the idea of beautiful football out the window. As and idea and a principle it’s the top, certainly, but at the dance it’s only the gown if you don’t know the steps. Incredibly, Oranje has the beautiful gown, and knows the steps better then most, but would rather look good then get laid/shag. As previously mentioned we lack the mentality of winning, we lack the leadership to generate that team mentality, and aside from a small few we have no fire in our bellies.

The difference between your best game ever and your worst game ever wasn’t physical, it was mental. Personally, I’d add a zero to Jan’s venom percentage. The difference between players physically at the professional level is 5%. The mental difference on the other hand is 50%. MVB doesn’t posses the leadership skills to squeeze the most out of that 50%. At this point my fingers are crossed that the player do the squeezing.

Posted from  Canada

JVB 21, great analysis! When I think about the truly great managers and coaches involved in professional sports here in the US, every one of them made a difference because they changed the mentality of their athletes. Vince Lombardi, the great American football coach of the Green Bay Packers, made an ordinary team extraordinary by changing player attitudes about the sport. Bill Parcells (football), John Wooden (college basketball), Red Auerbach (professional basketball)–all instilled in their athletes the will to win, to perform at the peak of their potential, to work as a team for team success, not individual success, and take pride in their work every time they came onto the field or court.

From what I have read, Rinus Michels was that kind of coach/manager–placing high expectations on attitude and performance, and intolerable of anything less than the best an athlete had to give. To achieve such a level of success, the coach must have several qualities–respect of his players; a drive to win, win,win; an ability to intimidate while at the same time encouraging an athlete to perform at the highest potential; a complete understanding of how to coach (not play, coach!)the sport and its athletes; a non-negotiable attitude about doing it his way without convincing evidence to change; and a willingness to bench the “stars” if they do not meet expectations. In other words, a martinet with a heart. It may be that the “modern” Dutch footballer is not able to respond to a coach with these qualities, therefore the recent disappointing performances. van Basten appears to have only one or two of these qualities. de Haan, Hiddink do have these qualities, thus the difference in success rates as compared to van Basten. So it goes.

Posted from  United States