Oranje takes first hurdle: 2-0 win.

good analysis, very accurate.. id like to add something abt babel.. if anyone watched the liverpool – derby massacre last weekend, im sure u happened to realize that the former ajax left winger is also very adept at playing on the right. Somehow i dont know why though, but pennant was playing on the left, and babel on the right for most of the time they were on the pitch.

instead of making kuyt play, miguel, id take my chances and go with babel instead of kuyt on the right hand side.

Yes Rami u r right.we should go with babel if roban is not fit not with quite(a less skilled guy)
i expected a lucky this time its came through znider.
thank god we won the match i am happy.
any way san marco
used
Melchiot
mathjenson
bouma
gio
with johny heitinga tat made the difference.tat was a good tactics(but players r not not capable tat is not san mark’s problem)

Good comment jan.
about the vision of our back line
Zedorf did nt start tats pitty
we need to improve a lot
apreciable hard working from nestel
we can keep babel in right if roban is not fit.

Yet another case of the 4-3-3 not yielding results. Ruud is as isolated as before. vanPersie’s abilities remain underutilized in the wings and so on. I still feel a more center focussed lineup like 4-2-3-1 (I know I am pulling up canned stuff ) ) would serve Oraanje better than a 4-3-3. One possibility.
Van der sar
Melchiot, Heitinga, Mathijsen and Gio
Seedorf and De Zeeuw
Sneijder, van Persie and van der Vaart (hoping he is fit).
Ruud.
I have swapped vdv and sneijder keeping in mind Rafa’s stronger left foot.
This would leave van Persie build up the attack to Ruud and most importantly allow Seedorf (attacking) and de Zeeuw (defending) to liaise between the defence and the attack.
Jan guess you will agree that this has been missing for a long time, probably since Frank de Boer.

Posted from  United States

I think the blog post is a little bit too hard on them. The first half wasn’t very good, especially with the defenders who just passed it back and forth to each other all the time, but the second half was much better. I think they played quite well in the second half, keeping possession in the opponents half of the pitch, instead of in our own half of the field (i.e. like our defenders did in the first half of the game)… wow, a lot of “halves” in that sentence.

I think that Melchiot did pretty good too. He seemed to be the only defender who was actually bringing the ball up and bridging the gap between defense and the rest of the team.

I agree about Babel though.. he had some good plays, but he also had a lot of bad plays. He needs more improvement, but I see good potential.

I wish we could find a way to create more chances for Ruud. But that was a nice goal wasn’t it? I didn’t think there was any room to put a shot past the defender but he slipped it in very nicely. That’s why he’s the best finisher in the world though.

Posted from  Japan

Prabal, I agree. You’re line up could well work and I do think De Zeeuw could be the dynamic link between defense and the rest… Goof points. Caleb, Ruud’s goal was a typical RvN goal indeed. He doesn’t need a lot to pull the trigger.

Interesting to see how Oranje played good once it was 1-0. That’s typical. When the opponent needs to do something back, we can find the space we need, but to break down a defensive team like Bulgaria can only be done (in Ajax 1995 style) with fast-paced precision passing and lots of movement, in particular from the free man at the back moving into midfield (Blind, De Boer). Then you’ll always find the free man. It’s irritating that our midfield and attack have those abilities and our back line doesn’t… I am convinced Marco and Johnny are overseeing some one but I don’t know who

Posted from  Australia

Well, heres my grades:

vdSar; played very good, always difficult to stay focussed when you dont have much to do..one excellent safe

Bouma: defensive ok, no use in built up

Melchiot: dont like him, not good enough for Oranje

Mathijssen: made one huge defensive error almost letting Berbatov score form a corner kick, rest ok, not good enough in built up

Heitinga; played ok defensively, long ball not good enough, was the best defender

Gio; think Gio has had his prime some years ago, did some good work without the ball, covering for Sneijder but not good enough on midfield

deZeeuw; played very good defensivly but had a lot of mistakes in his passing game

Sneijder; didnt play good, too eager to show himself, goal was a mistake by the goalie

vPersie; worst game for Oranje in years, vanBasten shouldnt play him like that..its a waste!

Babel; not a good game, lost the ball quit a few times, no crosses to Ruud, nothing at all

vNistelrooy; well one shot on goal one goal.. very good..did what a striker needs to do…must be frustrated about the number of decent passes to him

Seedorf; nice to hear the crowd sing his name.. everybody here hopes hell get into the team..feelings about Seedorf have changed 180 degrees here in Holland.. played ok, one shot on the post but i had the feeling it went better after Seedorf got on

deJong: WHY MARCO??? WHY????

nothing really changed since the last game (and many games before that), i still see no progression, i see no real team, i see some good footballers wearing Oranje..thats it..

we have no change of glory next year if things dont start to improve very fast……

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

@rami; the problem is that Babel plays a 4-4-2 system at Liverpool, its very different from the way he plays at Oranje…dont think Babale would work as a right winger in a 4-3-3 system

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

defense: agree with goose tough Melchiot was the more constructive in midfield (and Berbatov fouled Mathijsen in that situation)

midfield: de Zeeuw and Sneijder fulls of good will but imprecises, Gio simply not good enough. Why not de Zeeuw as holding midfielder? He played that position in AZ! Gio sucks in any position. Bench him! Seedorf-de Zeeuw-Sneijder have to play

offense: Ruud worked very hard and very well, Van Persie played for himself and not for the team and made a lot of confusion. Babel? We never played on the left side…

No good news…

Posted from  Italy

Hi Mago, haven’t seen you around eh? Welcome! Goose, always a thrill to see your grades mate. De Jong .

I feel there’s only two things to do for San Marco: find the right man to play the playmaker role from behind and switch to 4-4-2 (or 4-2-2-1-1 for that matter). I’d say:

Sneijder in the back four! In case of set pieces, Wes can move forward and curl the ball in.

Midfield: De Zeeuw and Seedorf central. Van der Vaart left, Robben right. Ruud and Robin up front. Ruud deep, Robin behind him.

Boulah as stopper next to Wes and Ooijer and Heijtinga on the flanks. Or any other butcher.
Three defenders to stop the maximum two strikers of the opponent.

Do or DIE!!!

Posted from  Australia

Hi Jan. I had already added some comments but, I think, with an other name (maybe Ivan, my name )

I’m sorry but I feel there’s only ONE thing to do: fire Marco. Ok, it’s impossibile but he’ll never make the right and logical decisions. He will continue with Gio playmaker, VdV right forward and his 4-3-3 until our destruction.

Posted from  Italy

Mago, i’m not agree with your critics concerning gio: he’s a good attacking-minded defender (left side), so he should be left back.

Jan: to be honest, we should forget robben. i prefer babel in this role,but the 442 or 4-2-3-1 would be even better. instead of sneijder (who’s not too good in defending roles) i’d put de zeeuw into the stopper’s role. and i’d try drenthe.

vds – kromkamp,heitinga,de zeeuw,gio – seedorf,drenthe – sneijder,van persie,vdv – rvn

one thing i really-really-really want is to see clarence in the starting eleven. some weeks ago i wrote that i had 2 absolute favourite players,but finally it is not true because the 2 are 3: robin van persie,leo messi and of course clarence seedorf.

Posted from  Hungary

well; never tought it would come to this but i say; lets switch from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2!!
we just dont have the players to play 4-3-3 and we have all the right players to play 4-4-2

vanPersie is a total waste if you use him as a winger..esp. as a right winger
in theory 4-3-3 would be a better system to feed the striker when you have crosses coming in..that never happens..we have no real wingers left..all they do is start form the wing position but they all cut inside and try to score

@ferenc; have to agree with mago on Gio.. maybe he could play left back but only if we play weak opponents who will not attack much.. think Gio is past his prime and hes just not good enough to be playmaker on midfield, totally agree on Clarence…Clerance is my new hero, he really has made up for the past

Jan; are you serious on Sneijder?? hope not.. it would be a waste, just use deZeeuw as a libero and but Sneijder a line ahead.. switch Sneijder with deZeeuw, Boula in centre (he was terrible yesterday) next to Matijssen…

vdSar

Bouma Boula Matijssen Gio

deZeeuw

Sneijder Seedorf vdVaart

vanPersie

vanNistelrooy

btw; mango youre right, the best solution would be to get rid of vanBasten but that is not ganno happen, well have to wait till after the EC08

grzt

Posted from  Netherlands

Well guys:

I watched the game and it seems to me that Marco has a big problem. His 4-3-3 system doesn´t work for the players he has at his disposal.
van Persie is not producing anything important as winger and Gio van Bronckhorst doesn´t have the speed and pace to be a midfielder anymore at Oranje. Seedorf or Afellay can do much better than him and we have Mark van Bommel at home because of van Basten. Where is Kromkamp and what happened to players like Donk and Drenthe that should be on the team already?.
I think the best decision would be to finish the qualifiers and then sack van Basten because at Euro 2008 we need a coach who we can have confidence on him and believe he can guide us to the glory and with van Basten honestly, that is not the case.

the only reason its taken marco so long to assemble this talented line-up is because he was trying to find players who were in “football form.” (read: those who will conform to his 4-3-3) now, with the talent up-front, he still doesn’t see the benefit of changing to a more appropriate formation???? how is it he still has a job? although, not completely his fault that our backline is very below average.

editorial pics from gettyimages:

http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?EventId=72068121

Posted from  United States

btw: Cruijff is one of my all the time heroes (as oranje,ajax and barca player and as ajax and barca coach too), but he should be less orthodox about the system and not influence so much Marco. He should accept that we don’t have players for the 433 but we have enough talented guys for the 442. Winning teams nowadays don’t play 433 (except barca,but their 433 is different and more flexible),our players evolue in clubs playing 442,etc.

JC should accept that other systems are also good and can be played in attractive way. Michels’ 88 team, Hiddink’s 98 team, Rijkaard’s 2000 team, all played 442. And it worked.

I don’t want to say that Marco has no responsibility about it (he has a lot),but Cruijff’s influence is not always good. (and i’m very diplomatic.)

Posted from  Hungary

Jesus christ (no offense ment to anyone). Good thing the Bulgarian keeper wasn’t on the ball in that first half. Without Sneijder’s luck, it would have been a much risker second half. He played decently, considering the (sorry for the word) SHIT build-up from the back.

The ball possession was something like 65% NED – 35% BUL and yet, we did barely nothing??? The defenders were really “having fun” passing it between themselves yesterday.

We need someone to control the back, with some real vision. Gio was lackluster and Melchiot was having some problems passing to vPersie, who isn’t at his place at right wing.

We either need better build up from the back, or wingers who are actually wingers (as opposed to second strikers). Against a locked down defense like Bulgaria, the 18 yard box is just way to full (6-7 Bulgarians plus Babel, vNistelrooy, vPersie and sometimes the OMF). 4-3-3 works when the two of the three forwards force the opposing defense to spread the f* out, leaving gaps for vNistelrooy (hell, he scored a goal with about 3 defenders in a 1.5 meter radius, he doesn’t need much space to be effecitve but still more than a half-meter). vBasten really needs to find at least one other offensive player who doesn’t NEED to be in the 18 yard box. Then we can play some good 4-4-2 with players like vdVaart, Sneijder and vPersie.

I hope vBasten will be able to fix the problems that we have right now, cause yesterday’s victory was extremely lucky.

ferenc, in my opinion Gio is a weak defender and against top teams he is always in trouble. As a midfielder he can play only on the left but we have players better than him in that role.

Agree with the goose’s line-up even tough, as fullbacks, i would like Kromkamp and Emanuelson. The 4-1-3-2 is the system adopted by Van Gaal last season and it worked very well. De Zeeuw is perfect as playmaker and both Persie and VdV would be (at last!) in their favourite position.

Posted from  Italy

Marco call VDV, Afellay and Emanuelson for the match against Albania, Heitinga withdraw for “private reason”

Posted from  United States

Id like to try Seedorf as central defender. He is a good passer and very speedy, Mathijsen could do the work in the air, or even better Ooijer.

Great discussion guys… We should take over from San Marco. Create a team manager team! We’d do it for the love of it, right?

We’d have some debating to do about who plays in the back to secure a good build up… Seedorf, Sneijder, Davids (injured now)… They have all been mentioned. I agree that it is a waste of Sneijder’s attacking abilities, but we do have Seedorf and vd Vaart and V Persie for that. We need a guy who can play FOOTBALL at the back. Sneijder is the most dynamic one and if we have the opponent by the cojones, Wesley can move up to midfield Blind/Koeman/De Boer/Cocu style…

As for Drenthe and Donk, I think it’s good that they are left out. Remember what happened with some other big talents when they were called up a bit too early in their career (Maduro, Huntelaar, Babel, Emanuelson etc). The pressure at Oranje is on. Some of these boys (Drenthe) aren’t even sure of their position at their clubs… You don’t want to mess with them. The AZ Donk will not be the same player you’ll get in Oranje. In AZ, Donk is one of the leaders (I hope at least) but in Oranje he will be the lowest of the lowest. The dynamics are different, the coach is different, fans expectations are different etc etc etc. If we qualify for the EC, Donk and Drenthe should come on board for the experience, but let these gems develop a bit first…

Posted from  Australia

By the way, I just read that Foppe de Haan is very critical about Donk (and Aissati). The PSV player cops some criticism because “to him football starts at the moment he has the ball, if he doesn’t have it, he doesn’t participate.”

And about Donk, De Haan says: “He grabs useless yellow cards. I exepct him, with his power, body and experience, to be less reactive and to be the boss on the pitch.”

De Haan also expected Donk to lead, particularly now De Haan’s squad is refreshed with new players. “But he doesn’t. I feel he is stagnated in his development”.

Expect a fierce reaction from Louis van Gaal for this

Posted from  Australia

What’s the best formation that Holland use? Holland has so many good players, especially in the midfield. Actually, Holland only has one real winger, that is Robben.

If, all the good midfielders are fit: Seedorf, VdV, Sneijder, they cannot play together.

— 4132—-:

bouma, matthisjen, boula, kromkamp

de zeeuw

seedorf, vdv, sneijder

van persie, Rvn

I am confused, I don’t know where to put Robben.

Posted from  Indonesia

I mean, “maybe they cannot play together” (about Seedorf, VdV, and Sneijder). About the formation, I only imagine it…

Posted from  Indonesia

Well bobo, I guess you’re not the only one with that “where does Robben go” trauma.

But for this reason, I’d like to move Sneijder back one line. It resolves two issues: 1) the building up from the back (keep in mind, most opponents and even the strong ones play with 2 strikers so you need only 3 real defenders) and 2 to make space for our only winger.

By the way, there are some pontential wingers coming up: Daniel de Ridder, Tim Vincken, Slory and Luigi Bruins… The last three play for Feyenoord.

And, Robin van Persie can play winger all right, but it’s a bit of a waste to use him as such…

Posted from  Australia