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Oranje 2000 vs Oranje 2007

April 4th, 2007 | By: Jan | 17 Comments »

I said I would come back to you with an analysis of the EK2000 team vs the current Oranje.

Just to make my point, that although most of us think we should be among the best in the world and trash Rumania with dominant attractive football, maybe we are just not good enough…

I’ll take a sample line-up from 2000 and compare with today’s players:

Van der Sar – Van der Sar

I think Edwin is better today than he was back then. Can’t remember if he played for Fulham or for Juve in those days, but it doesn’t really matter. Today, he is captain and very happy at Man Utd. I’d say he is better now than ever.

0-1

Reiziger – Kromkamp

Reiziger wins hands down. A better defender. More discipline. Maybe not as good in building up, but with De Boer and Numan and Cocu around him, it didn’t matter that much.

1-1

Stam – Bouma, Boulah, Ooijer

Honestly, it doesn’t matter who you put next to Stam to compare. Stam was one of the best we ever had, no matter he made one little slip up every match. His presence alone made strikers weak at the knees.

2-1

F. De Boer – Joris Mathijsen

Only Ruud Krol was better, I’d say. Even Ronald Koeman wasn’t as good as Frank. His discipline, focus, leadership, sliding tackle and feel for the right position. He had a great left foot (the Bergkamp pass), a great free-kick and he was an awesome header.

3-1

Numan – Gio van Bronckhorst

Numan in my view was more complete. Very focussed. Fast and explosive. Gio can sometimes come across a bit lacklustre, uninterested. The only problem with Numan was, he couldn’t score. Put him in the box and he’d lose it. Let’s make this a draw.

4-2

R. De Boer – Landzaat

Used in the right way, Ronald de Boer was pure genius. Great passing, great command over the ball, great vision and fighting spirit. Better than Landzaat? I think so…

5-2-

Seedorf – Sneijder

I think Seedorf is a better football player. But Sneijder is more effective. Both defensively as offensively. Seedorf never was able to deliver in Oranje. Therefore, Wesley wins this one.

5-3

Cocu – Van Bommel (why not?)

Cocu is smarter and more complete. Van Bommel for instance is a lousy header. I also think Van Bommel sometimes lacks football intelligence. Cocu was an awesome team player and a great goalscorer as well.

6-3

Davids – Van der Vaart

Rafael is more for the connaisseur I guess. The Da Vinci of Oranje. But Davids was the heart and lungs of Oranje. His dribbles, his tackles, his leadership, his passing… The jury could debate this battle for ages – and please do! – but I’d say Edgar wins this one… And who knows, in 4 years time we’ll look back at this and say…”wow, that Jan guy was wrong!”. Rafael playing for Barcelona, scoring the winner for us in the WC2010 finals against Germany… But now, Edgar eats Raffie alive!

7-3

Bergkamp – Van Persie

Hahaha . Dennis wins. But again, in 4 years from now, maybe Van Persie will have won from the master… But for now, it’s

8-3

Kluivert – Huntelaar/Kuyt

Kluivert can’t lose this. His skills, his physique, his explosivity… Oh, and he scored goals too. And who knows…we may even see him in the Oranje jersey again, right?

9-3

Overmars – Robben

Well, tough one. Overmars was great. Fast. Good fighting spirit. Good goalscorer. But Robben is magic. If he doesn’t stumble and fall. And he scores too… I’ll go for a draw here….

10 -4

Well, the team that didn’t win any price, the team that lost against 10 Italians in the EC2000, they win easily from the eleven we call Oranje today…

Maybe we expect too much from San Marco…

Tags: Dennis Bergkamp, Edwin Van der Sar, The Netherlands

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Comments

By Lerkot | April 5th, 2007 at 4:32 am

What about Zenden? He played every game.

By ferenc | April 5th, 2007 at 6:36 am

i would say that overmars was better than robben. with the oothers i agree.

Posted from Hungary

By ferenc | April 5th, 2007 at 6:37 am

Jan: if my memory is good,in 2000 gio was the left back. (in 98 numan,but in 2000 i’m quite sure that gio.)

Posted from Hungary

By goose | April 5th, 2007 at 9:42 am

@yeah, ferenc is correct…it was Gio, Numan waved off after 1998

1. vandersar; agreed (played for Juve btw in 2000)

2. id say a draw, never really a fan of Reiziger, he was quick but could do nothing more than just run around..not a great defender

3. agreed, altough we have to remember that Stam was pretty old when he arrived at the top level, hes a great defender but slow and not a good football player

4.agreed, amazing defender, one of those people who you only really start appriciating when they’re gone

5. so that is actually Gio v Gio, id say hes not as strong as he was in 2000

6. well, any player is better than Landzaat, no competition

7. Intersting: as an oranje player i agree, Sneijder has delivered more…sec as a football player Seedorf is better

8. Agreed, but it took some time to find his place (he played well as a striker in 1998)

9. haha..the Da vinci..???? What do you mean?? Think its impossible to compare those two..too different…

10. No discussion…singing a song, walking along..walking in a Bergkamp wonderland…

11. Agreed altough i never liked Kluivert and think it helped that he played with some amazing players like Bergie and Overmars…hes to sensitive and not a real pro..he hasnt made the career wich he could have had…dont think he will ever wear the Orange shirt again (i certainly hope not!!)

12. Id say Overmars, maybe not the technician but very, very effective…actually think Robben is getting worse each year

Dont go to easy on vanBasten Jan…just look at the way we play…its so f#cking bad it hurts my eyes!!!

grtz

Posted from Netherlands

By ferenc | April 5th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

let’s see:

vds vs vds: he’s better and mentally stronger now. 0-1

reiziger vs kromkamp: reiziger was more polyvalent, technically better but more foolish capable of making stupid mistakes. however he’s my winner. 1-1

stam vs boula and co: no question,he was heroic. 2-1

fdb vs matthijsen: evident. 3-1

gio vs gio: now he’s got more experience but in spite of this 7 years ego he was more creative and fulfilled better his defensive duties. 4-1

rdb vs landzaat: if i compared marco the oranje manager to rinus michels. 5-1

clarence vs sneijder: clarence is one of my all-time favourites,he’s a better player than sneijder,but for the oranje sneijder is more useful. 5-2

cocu vs van bommel: i have some respect for van bommel,but cocu is better both technically and mentally. and he’s the archetype of total football: he can play in every position except goalkeeping. 6-2

edgar vs van der vaart: not too easy to compare these two guys,but if i do,i’ll certainly say: edgar. 7-2

bergkamp vs van van persie: i think robin will be the future bergkamp,but he’s still not… 8-2

kluivert vs kuijt/hunter: kluivert of course,he was really efficace in the oranje. but he was a lazy bastard,could have become a new van basten,but he prefered the nightlife of amsterdam and barcelona… 9-2

overmars vs robben: overmars because he was mentally stronger,not diving,efficace. at the beginning,3-4 years ago i thought robben would surpass him but he hasn’t been evolved in the last couple of years. 10-2

frank vs marco: frank was a good people-manager making some mistakes with his substitutions but his oranje played really better than marco’s team. attention: i don’t talk about frank rijkaard the coach of fc barcelona because now the difference is ten times bigger, but my words are about frank rijkaard as a young coach in 2000. 11-2

Posted from Hungary

By Stylus | April 5th, 2007 at 1:49 pm

and last but not least, comparing the 2000 team with 2007

Rijkaard – San Marco
(5-0)

so, 15-4…

By Mario | April 5th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

Well, I think that comparing the 2000 team with today´s team is a great exercise by Jan and I agree with him in his results.
The central issue here is that when you see the players that were playing in the 2000 team vs today´s team we have to make a deeper analisis on the subject.
The Oranje 2000 team had very experienced and acomplished players with World Cups and European Championships already played and many of them had won the Champions League. Today´s team is a new generation of players that perhaps and I hope so, will be as succesful as those players. van Persie for me will be one of the best players in the world, I am sure of that. And besides our team manager forgot that experience counts but he killed himself with the press by his treatment of experienced players like Ruud, van Bommel, Makaay, Davids, Seedorf…let´s see who else joins the list. When our younger players go abroad to play with the important teams of Europe then we can make a balance on the subject. I hope the young lads have a great career but for that we gotta be patient and they have to be intelligent to sign contracts with important teams just like Kuyt and Robben did and not like van der Vaart and de Jong did. If the new Dutch generation obtains to go abroad and play for the big guns of Europe then we can have a very powerful team for many years.

By Stylus | April 5th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

az-breme it’s 0-0….

By Stylus | April 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

still no defeat for az alkmaar at home then!!

By Miguel Rosado | April 5th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

1)Edwin has always been a great goalie but now he has much more experience and has become an influential leader. And has learned how to stop penalties hahaha.

2)Reiziger-Kromkamp: I’d say that this one is even but I think that Kromkamp with the years can be a better player, he is an attack minded defender (more than reiziger).

3)Stam wins. No question about that.

4)Frank. It was just such a joy to watch him play, great long distance passes, free kicks, a leader. He truly loved the national team.

5)Gio-Gio: He is an OK player, nothing else. Good defender and that’s about it. You can’t compare him with Numan or Bogarde. Gio doesn’t have much courage. I believe Emanuelson or Drenthe will be way better.

6)If my memory is good I think that Overmars played Ronald’s position on the right wing placing Zenden on the left wing, I believe that’s how they played against Yugoslavia. Anyway, as goose said any player is better than Landzaat, he is no competition.

7)Seedorf-Sneijder: I agree with goose, Seedorf is a better player (in my opinion), hasn’t delivered as he has at club level but Sneijder hasn’t delivered that much either (just look at the WK). Wesley has a lot of future and we’ll have to wait and see as the years pass. He can be a great player.

8)Cocu-Bommel: tough one, they are both great players and mentally very strong. But Cocu plays in every position though.

9)Davids-Vaart: In my opinion Davids wins this one EASILY. CL winner with ajax, CL final with juventus, great careeer with the national team. You can’t compare Raphael who is the leader of HSV Hamburg (as much as I also like him) to Edgar.

10)Kluivert-Huntelaar/Kuyt: Kluivert of course. He played at the top for many years, he loved the national team and always delivered (remember the header vs Brazil?, amazing stuff). I think that neither Kuyt nor Huntelaar can be compared to him, maybe Huntelaar in the future but I don’t see Kuyt playing as the only central striker of the Dutch national team. The only player who can be compared with Patrick right now is Ruud but San Marco is maybe blind?.

11)Overmars-Robben: I totally agree with goose and ferenc, when Robben arrived at chelsea I thoughht he’d be a better player than Overmars but he gets injured very often and that has stoped his development. But I know he will be an influential player for Holland because he’s made for the big games. Only the years will tell.

12)Bergkamp-Persie: Robin has a lot of potential and I know he will be one of those players who will be remembered forever but Bergkamp has finished his career as a footballer and we all know he was magical, extraordinary, magnificent someone very wise with the ball. Robin is the future.

By Igor | April 6th, 2007 at 3:13 pm

The 2000 team was superior not only because of better individuals overall, but also because they played much better as a team. having players with vision and great football minds (F. De Boer, Bergkamp and even Cocu) must certainly help team-play though.

a while back someon posted some clips of Bergkamp, here is one of my favourites because it features his excellent passing and vision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ko3TEjzPQ

Posted from Canada

By Jan | April 9th, 2007 at 3:55 am

Zenden… forgot him… He’s never been my fave… Did he play left winger? Well, Robben beats Zenden in my book. Zenden may be going back to PSV I read…

Posted from Australia

By Samuel Knight (Oudegeest) | April 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

I loved this discussion. But it seems to forget two details.

Number 1 it appears that the players are rated based on their whole career, rather than how they were in 2000 vs. how the 2007 is now in 2007.

That’s always makes things tricky, because we don’t know what the future bodes for a lot of 2007 Oranje.

Number 2 – the 2000 team was extraordinary. They looked great in most of the games, although they needed a bit of luck to win against the Czechs in the opening game.

But frankly they choked twice. First, do you remember Kluivert’s miss on the penalty? And then Rijkaard’s weird substitutions? You need a long shot to open up the Italians, but you leave Pierre van Hooidonk (sp?) on the bench? (De Boer’s penalty was saved – that happens, Rijkaard should have just told him, take the next one.)

Also, back to point 1. Personally Bergkamp of 2000 just wasn’t the Bergkamp of 1998. I’d take Van Persie of 2007 any day over Bergkamp of 2000.

Posted from United States

By Jan | April 10th, 2007 at 12:54 am

Sam, good points. I do agree on the comparisons, although I did try to compare the achievements of the specific tournament with the form of the players now. But yes, fair points.

And I agree with Rijkaard’s changes. Van Vossen??

Posted from Australia

By goose | April 10th, 2007 at 6:08 am

SK: Sorry mate, cant say that about Dennis…even if Bergkamp was over the hill in 2000…vanPersie still isnt even close to what Bergkamp was…i have great respect for vanPersie and i think hes our main man on the pitch but please dont say that again (well ofcourse you can say whatever you like ), vanPersie has proven himself only since last season and that was still up and down

grtz

Posted from Netherlands

By goose | April 10th, 2007 at 9:32 am

@SK: btw: the point you make in the problem with comparing is a very valid and true one

grtz

Posted from Netherlands

By Samuel Knight (Oudegeest) | April 10th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

Jan and Goose,

Thanks, fascinating to look back. 2000 was incredibly frustrating because Rijkaard did a superb job in getting the team pumped and ready.

And then (in my view) just choked in subbing in the semi-final. They pounded and pounded on the goal. But he just didn’t put in the folks to help break down the Italian box. Van Vossen rather than Hooidonk was just weird. You need a tall dude for headers and a big foot. And he puts a guy with white man’s disease without much of a shot (pls forgive the inherent racism of the American expression, but it’s exactly what I thought).

Would still stick with Van P of 2007 (except for now, when he’s injured of course.) Since last summer he’s been on a tear. When he’s there Arsenal and Oranje win and when he’s not, they don’t. Denis Bergkamp was brilliant, but by 2000 he just wasn’t ripping people apart anymore.

Posted from United States

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