Comments on: NED – ARG 0-0 FT http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html World Cup 2010 - South Africa, Oranje, Nederlands Elftal, Eredivisie, Marco van Basten, Dutch football, The Netherlands Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:55:54 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Rami http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2705 Rami Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:36:05 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2705 PS: I still firmly believe that davids (alone and not the whole 2004 crew) for landzaat for example would not have affected the team spirit we have.. PS: I still firmly believe that davids (alone and not the whole 2004 crew) for landzaat for example would not have affected the team spirit we have..

]]> By: Rami http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2703 Rami Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:33:45 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2703 That would be honestly heartbreaking for me to see but u might be right Micha.. Van Nis used to be much more, no one can contest that.. Jan you're right when u say its so easy to blame the striker if he doesnt score the goals. But van Nis on several occasions used to get the goals himself. Don't know man.. But then again, Kuyt is not a convincing replacement in my opinion at all. Against argentina he was the one who got the chances and he missed them flagrantly... Had you had Huntelaar on the bench, hehe, then i think your talk micha would have been constructive and effective.. Now im sorry but i feel benching van Nis would be just useless. Same thing goes for our midfield were there was a possibility to have davids providing the Oranje with the crucial link between defense and midfield.. Jan.. isn't landzaat 31 ?? I never knew that. I was shocked when i read this last night. Doesn't really fit the criteria of a young experience team that Van Basten is opting for.. Furthermore, I definitely didnt see his effectiveness on the field.. He could have been easily replaced by davids, who maybe could have given us something exceptional.. All this for team spirit.. In the end at what cost did it come ?? Its pointless bringing all this now.. But im reminded about these points again and again in every time i see them play.. And with Micha's open criticism, i could not but mention them.. -Davids for Landzaat -Huntelaar for ineffective Hesselink.. Oranje should create a miracle on sunday, really, if they want to rise to the occasion and convincingly beat portugal as all dutch fans are hoping they would do.. I feel everyone is still 150% behind van basten so far but if he loses against Scolari the dog then hes gonna inevitably find himself in a very very tight spot.. Unfortunately the same spot Advocaat found himself in two years ago. I can see it coming, if we lose.. Well, hope not.. All of my friends are coming over for a barbecue/holland cheering and some criticizing lol.. We shouldn't lose again.. Not to portugal at least. (sigh). That would be honestly heartbreaking for me to see but u might be right Micha.. Van Nis used to be much more, no one can contest that.. Jan you’re right when u say its so easy to blame the striker if he doesnt score the goals. But van Nis on several occasions used to get the goals himself. Don’t know man.. But then again, Kuyt is not a convincing replacement in my opinion at all. Against argentina he was the one who got the chances and he missed them flagrantly… Had you had Huntelaar on the bench, hehe, then i think your talk micha would have been constructive and effective.. Now im sorry but i feel benching van Nis would be just useless.

Same thing goes for our midfield were there was a possibility to have davids providing the Oranje with the crucial link between defense and midfield..

Jan.. isn’t landzaat 31 ?? I never knew that. I was shocked when i read this last night. Doesn’t really fit the criteria of a young experience team that Van Basten is opting for.. Furthermore, I definitely didnt see his effectiveness on the field.. He could have been easily replaced by davids, who maybe could have given us something exceptional.. All this for team spirit.. In the end at what cost did it come ??

Its pointless bringing all this now.. But im reminded about these points again and again in every time i see them play.. And with Micha’s open criticism, i could not but mention them..
-Davids for Landzaat
-Huntelaar for ineffective Hesselink..

Oranje should create a miracle on sunday, really, if they want to rise to the occasion and convincingly beat portugal as all dutch fans are hoping they would do.. I feel everyone is still 150% behind van basten so far but if he loses against Scolari the dog then hes gonna inevitably find himself in a very very tight spot.. Unfortunately the same spot Advocaat found himself in two years ago. I can see it coming, if we lose..

Well, hope not.. All of my friends are coming over for a barbecue/holland cheering and some criticizing lol.. We shouldn’t lose again.. Not to portugal at least. (sigh).

]]> By: micha http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2698 micha Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:39:32 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2698 Jan, thanks for the feedback, still think it may be worth trying Robben on the left, V. Persie in the center, and Kuyt or Venagoor of H. on right. Seeing what V. Persie can do from that more central position 442 for Arsenal leads me to believe he is out of place on the wing isolated, the same way as Henri has become, on the left wing of France (quel catastrophe) It just seems like Kuyt maybe more comfortable over there and we know Robben's ability on the left side, I say put Persie in the middle and put Ruud on the bench, maybe he will play more inspired off the bench? After all, he is 29, is definately rumourerd to be leaving Man U.; Bayern Munich have openly confirmed interest, and it seems to me that the willingness of a top club to pay the pricetag sir Alex will attach to Ruuds transfer is very much balanced on his performance at the world cup? I can't see Ruud signing with a medicre club; but i don't know how much Munich will pay if he can't perform now when he needs to most, for Holland, for himself, and for Sir Alex, who hopes to earn a sizable transfer fee on behalf of Man U. In contrast Kuyt, as our British friend points out, is playing for his Priemiership debute, there is alot of interest and Feynoord need the money! Given a chance to produce he could substantially jack his value. He seems to want to step up to the occastion, Ruud seems a little non-chalant. Maybe starting on the bench will light his fire. Hup Holland! Jan, thanks for the feedback, still think it may be worth trying Robben on the left, V. Persie in the center, and Kuyt or Venagoor of H. on right. Seeing what V. Persie can do from that more central position 442 for Arsenal leads me to believe he is out of place on the wing isolated, the same way as Henri has become, on the left wing of France (quel catastrophe)
It just seems like Kuyt maybe more comfortable over there and we know Robben’s ability on the left side, I say put Persie in the middle and put Ruud on the bench, maybe he will play more inspired off the bench? After all, he is 29, is definately rumourerd to be leaving Man U.; Bayern Munich have openly confirmed interest, and it seems to me that the willingness of a top club to pay the pricetag sir Alex will attach to Ruuds transfer is very much balanced on his performance at the world cup? I can’t see Ruud signing with a medicre club; but i don’t know how much Munich will pay if he can’t perform now when he needs to most, for Holland, for himself, and for Sir Alex, who hopes to earn a sizable transfer fee on behalf of Man U. In contrast Kuyt, as our British friend points out, is playing for his Priemiership debute, there is alot of interest and Feynoord need the money! Given a chance to produce he could substantially jack his value. He seems to want to step up to the occastion, Ruud seems a little non-chalant. Maybe starting on the bench will light his fire. Hup Holland!

]]> By: Jan http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2672 Jan Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:59 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2672 @Micha Interesting comments. It seems there's a lot of confusion about Ruud's strengths as a striker. One of his biggest strengths is making runs from center to either left or right, and thus running the defense amok, sort of. That works in a 4-4-2 system, where he gets space for that. Remember, at PSV and ManU he played in a 4-4-2 system. Secondly, Ruud is strongest when coming into the box, facing the goal. In this team, he is the static target man, back to the goal. I think MvB wants him as the major distraction to the defense, at least keeping 2 defenders busy, so Robben, Robin and Rafael can penetrate and take on individual defenders. So, let's say we win the WC, but Ruud keeps on playing poorly and doesn't score. Would you care? He could have his function in the team as the main distractor. As long as others make use of his work. In the last games, Ruud wasn't great, but what did he receive from the wide strikers and midfield to play with? Not a lot. If Robben gets to be a bit more social, if Persie is involved more, if Vaart dares to play more dominant, then you'll see a good Ruud. It's too easy in my book to blame the striker when we don't score enough, you know. As for that former Ajax coach, Ronald Koeman, it is common knlowedge in Holland that 1) he had to leave ajax 2) he had a lousy relationship with vd Vaart and Sneijder and 3) he played un-Ajax like defensive. He worked in Portugal, at Benfica, and is now replacing Guus at PSV. God knows why they picked him. I've seen Rafael and Wesley play together. Raf as offensive midfielder on the left, Wesley as controlling midfielder central. No problem. But these systems can't be compared, coz Ajax would then play with a number 10 shadow striker, behind the number 9. So, you'd have 4 offensive players AND van der Vaart left on midfield and Sneijder supporting the back. No comparison with the current Oranje. It's hard to compare apples and pears, but fact is that both can play together in midfield. I think - I posted that before - that the key is in the center defense. We don't have real football there, only excellent marksmen like Boulah and Ooijer. Great defenders, but lousy build-up passers. There's our dilemma. I'd say: one wide defender needs to mark the opponents forward and Cocu needs to fall back to center defense. @Micha
Interesting comments. It seems there’s a lot of confusion about Ruud’s strengths as a striker. One of his biggest strengths is making runs from center to either left or right, and thus running the defense amok, sort of. That works in a 4-4-2 system, where he gets space for that. Remember, at PSV and ManU he played in a 4-4-2 system. Secondly, Ruud is strongest when coming into the box, facing the goal. In this team, he is the static target man, back to the goal. I think MvB wants him as the major distraction to the defense, at least keeping 2 defenders busy, so Robben, Robin and Rafael can penetrate and take on individual defenders. So, let’s say we win the WC, but Ruud keeps on playing poorly and doesn’t score. Would you care? He could have his function in the team as the main distractor. As long as others make use of his work. In the last games, Ruud wasn’t great, but what did he receive from the wide strikers and midfield to play with? Not a lot. If Robben gets to be a bit more social, if Persie is involved more, if Vaart dares to play more dominant, then you’ll see a good Ruud. It’s too easy in my book to blame the striker when we don’t score enough, you know.
As for that former Ajax coach, Ronald Koeman, it is common knlowedge in Holland that 1) he had to leave ajax 2) he had a lousy relationship with vd Vaart and Sneijder and 3) he played un-Ajax like defensive. He worked in Portugal, at Benfica, and is now replacing Guus at PSV. God knows why they picked him. I’ve seen Rafael and Wesley play together. Raf as offensive midfielder on the left, Wesley as controlling midfielder central. No problem. But these systems can’t be compared, coz Ajax would then play with a number 10 shadow striker, behind the number 9. So, you’d have 4 offensive players AND van der Vaart left on midfield and Sneijder supporting the back. No comparison with the current Oranje. It’s hard to compare apples and pears, but fact is that both can play together in midfield. I think – I posted that before – that the key is in the center defense. We don’t have real football there, only excellent marksmen like Boulah and Ooijer. Great defenders, but lousy build-up passers. There’s our dilemma. I’d say: one wide defender needs to mark the opponents forward and Cocu needs to fall back to center defense.

]]> By: micha http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2613 micha Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:12:18 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2613 As for the problems in the mid-field, I read a comment from the former Ajax manger who brought up both snjieder and van der Vaart, say that, it is useless to play both of them in the mid-field together because they are essentialy the same player in the same position. This makes sense to me after watching them trip over each other all game long. After all, they are both dead ball specialists with a threatening shot from the top of the box, and are basically trying to do the same thing instead of complimenting and supporting each others efforts. Obviously they are both good but may be more effective if you sub one in for the other. I was impressed with the efforts of de Cler on the left side and wonder if he could have a similar effect up the middle? Because giovanni von Bronkhorst and Robben are already the brightest spot of our attack, up that left side. Van Bommel has been spuratic at best and has not impressed down the right side where van Persie seems to get lost and shows a desire to want to move into the center where he can be effective with his deadly strikes from distance. The defence looked more effective-defensively speaking- without gio in the line up, but lacked any of the attacking push that he so regularly provides. Van Basten does not have long to solve the mid field dellema, somebody better straighten out this mess by sunday, or we may be ruined. Hup Holland As for the problems in the mid-field, I read a comment from the former Ajax manger who brought up both snjieder and van der Vaart, say that, it is useless to play both of them in the mid-field together because they are essentialy the same player in the same position. This makes sense to me after watching them trip over each other all game long. After all, they are both dead ball specialists with a threatening shot from the top of the box, and are basically trying to do the same thing instead of complimenting and supporting each others efforts. Obviously they are both good but may be more effective if you sub one in for the other. I was impressed with the efforts of de Cler on the left side and wonder if he could have a similar effect up the middle? Because giovanni von Bronkhorst and Robben are already the brightest spot of our attack, up that left side. Van Bommel has been spuratic at best and has not impressed down the right side where van Persie seems to get lost and shows a desire to want to move into the center where he can be effective with his deadly strikes from distance. The defence looked more effective-defensively speaking- without gio in the line up, but lacked any of the attacking push that he so regularly provides. Van Basten does not have long to solve the mid field dellema, somebody better straighten out this mess by sunday, or we may be ruined. Hup Holland

]]> By: ayl18 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2612 ayl18 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:08:15 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2612 I like Kuyt because he works like a dog, however, against Argentina he consistenly lost the ball in posession or due to a stray pass. He did very well controlling the long balls out to the left but 9/10 times he just trapped the ball, ran backwards and the ball ended up where it began... still like him though! It was a rather scrappy game by both sides but you can't expect perfect ball retention when each team is so compact and well-oiled soi guess that it's not all that bad. I like Kuyt because he works like a dog, however, against Argentina he consistenly lost the ball in posession or due to a stray pass.

He did very well controlling the long balls out to the left but 9/10 times he just trapped the ball, ran backwards and the ball ended up where it began… still like him though!

It was a rather scrappy game by both sides but you can’t expect perfect ball retention when each team is so compact and well-oiled soi guess that it’s not all that bad.

]]> By: micha http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2609 micha Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:41:25 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2609 What is the deal with Ruud v Nistelroy? It seems his form of the first 2 seasons he played for Manchester is long behind him. I was encouraged by his desire to fight for the ball and position in the first half; but, with seemingly no success? I remember him routinely beating defenders one on one and imposing his will with full speed runs that started well outside the box. Service or not, he just seems to give up on runs too easily, and against Argentina he consistently-one touch passed-the ball back into the midfield where he had just received it from. Why does he not ever try to turn on one side or the other and run the ball right into the box losing the defender thats playing on his back, like he used to do? True his strike from the box was clinical and although it looked easy there was no room for error, and he did not make one. But you cant expect the kind of service Robben provided to leave Ruud wide open and on side regularly. If these are the conditions Ruud requires to suceed, then maybe MvB is better off starting Dirk Kuyt in the center instead of Ruud, or even better, move van Persie into the middle. Because personally, i am not conviced of Kuyts ability either; he reminds me of van de meyde when ran up and down the right side for advocaat in the euro's , with absolutely no effect; ultimetly costing us the game against Portugal when he was subbed on in place of Robben who was playing great, and should have stayed on. But that is why we don't have advocaat anymore, and if we lose to Portugal on sunday, van Bastens future with the national team may be in serious jeapordy. So lets win, decisively, and show the improvment we have been waiting for 3 games now. Hup Holland! What is the deal with Ruud v Nistelroy? It seems his form of the first 2 seasons he played for Manchester is long behind him. I was encouraged by his desire to fight for the ball and position in the first half; but, with seemingly no success? I remember him routinely beating defenders one on one and imposing his will with full speed runs that started well outside the box. Service or not, he just seems to give up on runs too easily, and against Argentina he consistently-one touch passed-the ball back into the midfield where he had just received it from. Why does he not ever try to turn on one side or the other and run the ball right into the box losing the defender thats playing on his back, like he used to do? True his strike from the box was clinical and although it looked easy there was no room for error, and he did not make one. But you cant expect the kind of service Robben provided to leave Ruud wide open and on side regularly. If these are the conditions Ruud requires to suceed, then maybe MvB is better off starting Dirk Kuyt in the center instead of Ruud, or even better, move van Persie into the middle. Because personally, i am not conviced of Kuyts ability either; he reminds me of van de meyde when ran up and down the right side for advocaat in the euro’s , with absolutely no effect; ultimetly costing us the game against Portugal when he was subbed on in place of Robben who was playing great, and should have stayed on. But that is why we don’t have advocaat anymore, and if we lose to Portugal on sunday, van Bastens future with the national team may be in serious jeapordy. So lets win, decisively, and show the improvment we have been waiting for 3 games now. Hup Holland!

]]> By: Rain http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2606 Rain Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:40:55 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2606 Strongest defence ever seen in this WC. Maybe not such a beautiful game (we all prefer to see goals) to watch but you did really good. Both teams were brilliant defending. I am sure you will defeat Portugal. Cheers from another Argentinien Strongest defence ever seen in this WC. Maybe not such a beautiful game (we all prefer to see goals) to watch but you did really good. Both teams were brilliant defending. I am sure you will defeat Portugal.

Cheers from another Argentinien

]]> By: Rami http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2598 Rami Fri, 23 Jun 2006 04:42:20 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2598 Ur Def Right abt the confidence boost richard.. I cant wait guys. I hope vdv shines.. Hes the key i guess to the success of the midfield.. Ur Def Right abt the confidence boost richard..

I cant wait guys. I hope vdv shines.. Hes the key i guess to the success of the midfield..

]]> By: richard http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html/comment-page-1#comment-2587 richard Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:19:59 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/ned-arg-0-0-ft.html#comment-2587 Everybody was worried about the Dutch D (defense)--but they've been effective in the back, partly because the team seems to have played conservatively. As the experts here say, it's clear that the Dutch are not getting enuf attack support from the midfield. That said, this is a quality team with strong upside potential. If the midfield can come on, the Dutch will be a very tough out. We'd all rather be playing mexico--but a win over portugal will give this side a huge confidence boost. Everybody was worried about the Dutch D (defense)–but they’ve been effective in the back, partly because the team seems to have played conservatively. As the experts here say, it’s clear that the Dutch are not getting enuf attack support from the midfield. That said, this is a quality team with strong upside potential. If the midfield can come on, the Dutch will be a very tough out. We’d all rather be playing mexico–but a win over portugal will give this side a huge confidence boost.

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