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My take on Marco…

August 22nd, 2007 | By: Jan | 15 Comments »

I seem to have a bit of a different view on matters… See what you make of it .

I think Marco was too unexperienced when he started the job. As he himself always said: “I wanted to start my career slowly, at a club level, but when the KNVB offered me the job I couldn’t resist…”. So, JC has a lot of faith in Marco (doesn’t say a lot, really…JC never achieved anything as team manager of Oranje, because…well…because he always saw a reason to bail out…), and the KNVB needed to do something drastic after the Advocaat debacle.

So, there’s Marco. With Johnny.

Start was ok. Fresh new players. A bit of experimenting, but results. Not great football, but definitely not bad football either.

Then, at the WC, things go horribly wrong. Not in match 1. We won. It wasn’t easy. But we were laughing!! Match 2, we did ok. Ruud scored. Robin scored. But we got in trouble a bit, against the Ivory Coast athletes. But hey, we knew our defense wasn’t so hot, so… The Argentina match was for the cat’s vagina as we call it .

But then… A spat between Marco and Ruud. Ruud, who is emotional, driven and very impulsive and hotheaded. He adored the player Marco van Basten. And he revered him and loved working with him. But Marco let him down. In the press conference. Marco said that Ruud didn’t play well enough. Or something like that. And Ruud blew up. So, end of relationship for now.

Then somewhere down the line, Marco realized the group wasn’t good enough for 4-3-3. Our defense is the weak link. And most of our players play 4-4-2. As do most opponents. And since last summer, so does the U21 team. And they win the title.

Marco feels sorry for the Ruud-saga. Ruud feels sorry about it too. (The van Bommel story is totally different and will not be resolved)

Marco realizes he needs to adapt his system a bit. And sort of comes back on his macho words (dominant, attractive football, with wingers, 4-3-3 blablabla). And puts some realism in his idealism… So, with players like Robben, Seedorf, Sneijder, Vaart, Persie, Nistelrooy, Kuyt, Babel, De Zeeuw, (need I go on), and a flexible but inexperienced coach, we will move forward.

I think we’ve got the material. And I think we have a coach with very good intuition but mediocre management skills and experience.

Rather Marco and our gang of players than some shithot team manager and a mediocre group of players (England, Germany, Spain, Italy…).

Let’s all get behind our boys and our team manager… Let’s quit bashing San Marco. He means well! He shows guts! Let’s judge him after the EC 08!!

HUP HOLLAND HUP

Btw, the Swiss team is not as good as Holland (obviously) but it won’t be a walk over….

Tags: marco van basten, Rafael van der Vaart, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, The Netherlands

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Comments

By goose | August 22nd, 2007 at 6:06 am

good quality piece Jan (as useall) but think youre a bit too soft on Marco

true; he was made an offer he couldnt resist (fault with KNVB), true he had little experience but he had time to learn and he didnt!

think we can be mild about vanBasten know cause it has been so long since we saw Oranje play BUT i havent forgotten (Lux., Alb.)

i havent forgotten the way he treated: vanBommel/vanNistelrooy, even Davids (not of of me personal fav.)

i havent forgotten the WC

i havent forgotten all those teribble qualification games (with the exception of 1 half against Bulgary)

i know we will have to learn to live with vanBsten, atleast till the end of EC08

vanBasten has a very special place in dutch football history…as a player!!!..that doenst mean he should get away with dismal perfprmences, extremely bad people management nad bad football insights

ill bash vanBasten till we play great or till hes gone….

thats what he deserves

grtz

Posted from Netherlands

By Bruce | August 22nd, 2007 at 8:12 am

I’ll always be behind Oranje 100% and I obviously wish for van Basten to lead us to glory, but if you are honest you must realize that the only member of Oranje who has consistently not fulfilled his role in the past 2-3 years is Marco.

BUT at the same time I do not blame him in a way. As you say Jan, he started too early (but how DO you resist). Anyways, he made all the same mistakes any manager would make during his first few years on the job and hopefully he can learn from them (seems to be happening already) and begin to lead a squad we will all be remembering in 30 years.

HUP HOLLAND HUP.

Posted from Republic Of Korea

By Miguel Rosado | August 22nd, 2007 at 1:17 pm

I think it’s not Marco’s fault but KNVB’s because they did the same with Rijkaard by naming him the coach in 2000, the difference is that Frank already had a formed group of players with a lot of experience to rely on and Marco had a totally new group of players.

You can forgive Marco for some things like unexperience but it seemed he had never watched Ruud play because the problem didn’t start after the game with Argentina. Marco couldn’t see the real Ruud at the WC because since game 1 (Serbia) he took Ruud out when there were 20 or 30 minutes left to play, the same with Ivory Coast and Argentina. I mean did he watch the amazing goal Ruud scored against Germany in 2004 what minute was that???. Ruud needs to play 90 minutes.

Marco has good intentions with the team and some day will be a magnificent coach but with all due respect we don’t need students in our national team we need proven coaches.

And as goose said I still remember the WC and all those horrible qualifiers. I had never seen Holland play in such a bad way. The problem is that I will be very heart broken if the EC 08 goes by and Marco does something wrong again.

But this is Marco Van Basten we are talking about, a player who gave us plenty of satisfaction and for that he deserves another chance.
Let’s hope this time he can give us that satisfaction as a coach.

HUP HOLLAND HUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By netherlandfanboy | August 22nd, 2007 at 2:25 pm

It’s half time and we’re behind 0 – 1

Posted from United States

By stephen | August 22nd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

lost 2-1. Nice.

Posted from United States

By Pim | August 22nd, 2007 at 6:24 pm

marco vb needs to get things right for the bulgaria game then i will cut him some slack, if he doesn’t it would be ironic that we could be in danger of not qualifying for the very tournament he claims to be preparing us for during the last 3 years… however i will say the results under vb were good leading up to the portugal game last year… the ec08 results on the other hand have been very POOR… the upcoming games against bulgaria and romania will give us a good indication as to where this team is heading… i find it interesting that hollands odds of winning euro 08 were generally 6-1 after the the wc and have increased to 8-1…

By Prabal Rakshit | August 22nd, 2007 at 8:30 pm

Jan, It is true that Marco was inexperienced and had his learning curve. But should Oraanje be the playground of inexperienced managers rather than proven performers? I mean had a player performed like that he would have been dismissed a long time back. It is true that Oraanje had a dream run in the WC-06 qualifiers in terms of points. But which experienced team did the Dutch beat? Karel Brueckner’s ageing Czechs, who were humiliated by Ghana? Rest were all mediocre results against mediocre teams. Still nobody complained because we went through to the WC-06 unscathed.

The first match against Serbia – Robben takes the Dutch through, but the Serbs show the holes in our line up. Had Van Der Sar not made a couple of good saves we might have returned home empty handed.

The second match against CIV – Ruud and RVP put us 2-0 up. Everyone thinks of a tennis scoreline ala Argentina’s 6-1 demolition of Serbia. But all of a sudden Drogba, Arouna Kone and friends keep on pushing us back. A very fortunate save by Van Persie right at the goalline with his shoulder-bone (barely avoinding a hand ball) just keeps us afloat.

The third inconsequential match against Argentine – Nobody bothered about the result but everytime Messi and Tevez had the ball there were tremors in the defences. Van der sar was way too busy than his opposition counterpart Abondazzieri (did I spell it right?) Still a harmless looking scoreline comes to our rescue.

‘The match’ against Portugal: Well refereeing and un-sportsmanship apart, the difference between the football played by the two teams was not exactly invisible. Maniche made history with the only worthwhile chance he got. Cocu/Van Bommel etc. all missed theirs. Ricardo Carvalho marshalled a 9 man Portuguese team till the end. The Dutch co-ordination was just not there, except the one odd long ball here and there. I am not blaming San Marco for this, but what on earth prompted him to introduce Jan VoH when a much better and proven goal poacher sat benched?

All said and done, it was then revealed to the stupid populace like us that San Marco is actually preparing for EC-08 and this WC-06 was just a training arena. I remember this topic was hotly debated in this forum itself. I mean can you imagine a manager taking the biggest footballing event on the earth as a preparation ground?

The fun was not over yet…We continued to play a game of pendulums in the EC-08 qualifiers. Defeated teams like Belarus 3-1 (who cares how convincing a victory it was against smaller teams?), had a supposedly good game against Bulgaria (with Kuyt getting injured) but what about the apology of a game against Luxembourg (we did win by a Joris Mathijsen strike, but any impartial observer would tell you how close it was) and the spectacle against Albania where we led 2-0 comfortably but not only allowed them to fight back but also pull a goal and coming much closer than what the scoreline suggests.

I am not counting friendlies against Russia (with due respects to the legendary Guus, they still are not world class) or the draw against England or immaterial friendlies against Thailand and Korea.

It is true that San Marco is not as lucky as Hiddink of 98 or Rijkaard of 00 to have a proven set of brilliant (albeit temperamental) players, but what is sad and depressing is:
- Even after so long at the helm of the team, he can’t get rid of 4-3-3 which just does not work with the present set of players. Ruud will continue getting redundant. If you want RVP to partner him upfront, why not have 2 strikers?
- Even today the defence does make the same mistakes
- Even today the midfield lacks the cohesiveness of a well-oiled machine.
- Even today, the gameplan gets shaken after we let in a goal or two.
- In spite of several good players (individually) there is no guarantee that the team will not slip to mediocrity in course of a match.

I know these are all theoritical niceties but the moment there is a no-holds-barred clash against a top team in a big competition these things would make a difference. How long can you blame inexperience? The resilient Swiss have pointed out the vulnerability now. What is the guarantee that bigger names will not take us apart on a bigger stage like EC-08?

I sincerely hope I am proven wrong!!

Posted from United States

By Jan | August 23rd, 2007 at 5:28 am

Good posts all… And it’s true… We can’t be happy…

One of Marco’s problems (and we’d all have them in his place) is that we have so many good players for midfield and attack but not enough smart strongholders in defense and midfield. I’m thinking Frank de Boer, Edgar Davids, Jaap Stam, Phillip Cocu. We have maybe to many artists. And Marco may have to decide to bench some of them.

So, we can conclude that the players are available, the team is not…

Posted from Australia

By Sandesh | August 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 am

it has been 1 n half months since i started visiting this site n this is te best of all subjects which had been placed herein.
i look back at those glory days during late 90s n early 2000 we dint win any trophies but we played some best football the best during that time we beat france argentina n all those who came up against us that 98 world cup n euro 2000 the best holland team i have ever seen( i started watching oranje football since 1994)there was overmars bergkamp kluivert davids zenden stam seedorf de boer brothers all at their best
perhaps i may b wrong to expect the same football they played with the current bunch of players
but i think it is possible
why not ? look at RVDV RVN robben DK Sneijder they r no way less talented than the previous guys
wen anyone watches RVDV DK RVN Mathijsen they all praise their games but how on earth they look so unconvincing that no one bilivs
i think the real problem in the dutch squad is the inability of marco to choose the starting eleven n his belief in the players he is not sure who is best fitted in particular position
i think 4-4-2 is the best system with the players available currently we have van persie n kuyt who can play as a supporting striker n rvn n hunter as a centre striker van der vardt shud be implemented where he plays 4 hamburg
its been 3 years since marco was handed this team n no any progress has been found in this team
with the bunch of players we have got it is normal to register the win against lowly opponents but wat we want is the good game gre8 game and killer instinct
Best of Luck Oranje Guys

Posted from Nepal

By Sandesh | August 23rd, 2007 at 5:54 am

i still cant biliv why marco brought jan venegoor instead of rvn in that match against portugal this is sth which all the fans wud b feeling bad
but miguel said rvn is a player for 90 minutes how can a manager wait till 90 minutes hoping he wud score goals
the no of balls rvn receives frn wing is not enough robben frm left n rvdv frm right must supply him the ball more n more

Posted from Nepal

By Jan | August 23rd, 2007 at 6:52 pm

Very good remarks there Sandesh… Let’s turn this into a new thread…

Posted from Australia

By ayl | August 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 pm

I never get to see any of the Dutch games live or in full (except the WC, and other larger tournaments) because i don’t have pay tv
9only free-to-air). I spend hours scouring youtube and any other site i can find in order to watch a highlight reel. So, i was wondering if anyone knows of a website where i can watch full games, preferably for free.

Posted from Australia

By Jan | August 23rd, 2007 at 9:53 pm

Hey Ayl, sorry mate…I don’t know (I don’t watch the friendlies and qualifiers). The internet thing is too slow for me. Get frustrated.

Some others may know though…

Posted from Australia

By goose | August 24th, 2007 at 2:12 am

@ayl; if its on the public netwerk i have a place to look..but almost all friendly matches are on the commercial netwerks and they dont have good internet services…
prob. youtube is the best place to find material…
ill look for you aswell

grz

Posted from Netherlands

By Bruce | August 24th, 2007 at 3:14 am

I have watched every single Oranje game, every Liverpool game, any big team Eredivisie (PSV, Ajax, AZ, Feyenoord) through this website.

http://www.football4less.com

It just takes a few minutes of downloading the proper software and looking on the website for when the games are playing and you can watch any game live at decent quality for free.

Check it out!

Posted from Republic Of Korea

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