Mark and Ruud say NO to Marco

This was a good performance guys. It ended in a tie, but considering all of the bad luch preceding and during the game…

(plus the ref called off two perfectly good Holland goals.)

Here are some quotes from the Dutch Newspapers..

Posted from  United States

Daniel, I totally agree. I would love to hear the ref explain why that goal was disallowed. There is absolutely nothing I could detect at the time or now looking back that is wrong with it. Certain things are starting to fall in place like the “search” for a leader. Well, I think it is obvious that there are players moving to the forefront there. Van Persie, what a soccer player!! Folks this is still a young guy! But also Sneijder. The very good questions was asked on these blogs who could distribute the long ball effectively on this team. I think he will be the guy. Don’t forget he too is very young and the “vision” of how everything is playing out on the soccerfield is a veteran’s game but he has the accurace and an amazing kick from both legs. WK proved he should not play the defensive midfield role but the his game sight now is very much on.
Those 2 you can build a future around. Add Huntelaar to that mix and vd Vaart and there is little need for all the doom and gloom.
There are 2 years to develop it into a contender. That is not much and as history proves it will likely not go smoothly but it is also not impossible..
Hey, we look a lot better than England or Spain right now with their super leagues

btw @Daniel, Nice Site!!

So now Van Bommel says no to Van Basten, Ruud says no to Van Basten, but when will KNVB say enough Van Basten?
The problem with Van Basten is his attitude, he is not a good manager because he is not a good motivator! In the world cup he catagorized the team as a work in progress and explained that his focus was not on the WC the team was playing for, but the future beyond that; the problem with that is the message it sends to the team. It gives the players an excuse for losing and makes it ok to lose because even their own manager does not expect them to win the prize they are competing for. A good manager would do the exact oppisite by pointing out that teams like Brazil and Argentina etc, which are stacked with the biggest names and the biggest stars have often failed to produce the greatest results, while teams like Korea and Japan which are not even on the radar as far as football stars are concerned, have produced results that exceed their collective talent. Because it is not the teams with the greatest stars but the teams with the greatest character and belief in their ability that produce the great results.
As far as Oranje is concerned they have played for the grand prize in two consecutive world cups and have come away losers in both! So now nothing short of winning the WC can be considered as victory.
Van Bommel is the type of player that will do anything to win, as Goose said, his contribution to the team is so vital on so many levels that scoring goals is just a bonus, he is right to refuse to play for Van Basten because his attitude is one of winning at any cost without exception and Van Bastens attitude is not, so as far as Van Bommel is concerned, that is the end of the story. Ruud is a player that must be motivated and inspired to perform at the level he is capable of, not criticized and beraited by his manager in the media and in front of his teammates untill his performance and confidence is degraded to a point where benching him is justified, by doing that Van Basten showed no class and demonstrated that he is incapable of managing players effectively. Cruiff was a great player but ultimately he lost two world cups in a row so maybe his influence over Van Basten and KNVB is not effective I would like to see someone in charge who expects Oranje to win every major prize they play for and governs the players accordingly. Is it too much to ask for the manager to publicly announce that he expects the team to win the Euro’s and the World Cup and anything short of that can only be considered failure for which they will take full responsibility because they obviously failed to manage and motivate the players effectively? This type of talk is what I would regard as positve. Van Bommel is great, Van Basten is not. KNVB bears the ultimate responsibility, am I ever going to celebrate a World Cup victory in my lifetime? Does Cruiff expect too? You tell me? Hup Holland!

@Robert

Things are definitely looking better for the lowland than for england. I’m very much looking forward to Holland playing them on Nov 15th!

Misha!
Basten is the problem, we all agree it to you. with very poor human skill, lack of motivation, non-productive goal settings, not any grand prizes can’t be expected in his hands.
Orange never decended lower than 1/4 finals since 1988 and only knocked out in normal playing time was in 2004.
With bulk of starsitlls: Davids, Seedorf, Overmars, Ruud, Robben, Vart … Holand failed to domainate the game and lost cowardly to Portugals.
Thurst for domainancy and attacking play emerge since then.
knvb and orange fans expected Basten be a saviour during his unbeaten wc06 qualifying campeign again.
Wc ended up with unsatisfactory results and Basten put the euro08 QC on the bumpy road with full of dissembles within the squad.
Anyway issues on Ruud and Bommel has over, badly wounded Basten still holding the steering for the time being and just wait and see how long Knvb will be patient with him.
From optimistic point of view, Persie, Sneijder and Khalid has led the totally new generation to show up a high combat spirit at the worst situation at Sofia isn’t it.
Just forget Ruud, Bommel, Seedorf and think how could Vaart and Huntelaar gel up to present team chemistry. We have seen some light over the horizon.
Although 1-1 is not a result good enough, the young team bring back clock work orange play as Basten promised once.
If Orange can play the same way and have some reasonable results in forth-coming games, that would surely be relief for him.
On other hand, less than reaching to final never mean a victory for Orange, that unlikly to achieve in Basten’s era.
KNVB do have a bunch of quality managers once it is time for Basten. He looks more likely to be a care taker for interim between old and new generations.
He may not collect trophies but blames, possibly will leave a well founded resources for a new qualified manager.
At last and at least he would have eased Cryuff’s fear on “loss of generation”

Posted from  Myanmar

@Misha

“Oranje never descended lower than 1/4 finals since 1998..”

Are we forgetting the miserable qualifying run for the World Cup in 2002? Holland didn’t even make it to the cup. and surely, you can’t mean that the World Cup in Italy in 1990 was any sort of success. What went on there was ridiculous.

And do you really think that Oranje under Advocaat was better than under van Basten?

Holland lost cowardly to the Portugal? Did we watch the same game?! There were 4 red cards and 16 yellow ones. That was an all out battle. Holland lost, but surely you can’t say they were cowards. The Ref was a lunatic. And yea, Ruud should have come in the game, but you have to admit, Holland did play very well in that game..

Oranje under van Basten has only lost 1 game. And we’ve played Argentina, Germany, England, Mexico, Ivory Coast, Czech Republic.. Can you honestly say they are doing that poorly?

Posted from  United States

@daniel… sure holland has never finished lower then 1/4 finals at the euro since we won but how many finals have we been in since then…NONE!… at euro 96 we were humiliated by england 4-1 and at euro 04 outplayed by the czechs and portugal so lets be honest… we haven’t dominated at the euro’s like you are making out… those two tournaments we qualified to knock out rounds on goal differences… not to impressive… sure we have only lost one game under van basten but we didn’t beat argentina, england, and germany did we… but we did get humilated by italy… AT HOME!!! so thats 0-3-1 against world class opponents… not that great… as for mexico, ivory coast, and czechs they are not world class teams so we shouldn’t base our success on those results although they are tough opponents…

Posted from  Canada

@misha… you could not be more right… at world cup you should always be aiming to go one step further… for oranje its to win… nothing else is acceptable…

Posted from  Canada

how could you say that the czechs are not a world class team. Do you only say that because they didnt do so hot in the WC

Posted from  United States

@Jip Jaap

That was the point I was trying to make. Oranje under Van Basten is better off than we were under Advocaat. I don’t at all think Holland dominated at Euro 2004, I think we’re better now. And the saga under van Gaal in 2000-2002 was obviously dismal.

I really do think we’re building back up to the level we were back in France in ‘98 and Euro 2000 (although hopefully with the ability to actaually convert penalty kicks.)

You’re right about that Italy game, I had forgotten about that friendly from March.. So, van Basten has lost two games.. (Portugal + Italy)

And yes, nothing but the World Cup can be considered a success.

Some highlights of Saturday’s game..

Posted from  United States

So what about 2-1 Albania?????????

I also didnt get to watch the match but sure seems like a poor performance at first sight.

Any Comments?
What was our lineup?

Posted from  Russian Federation

They played terrible. The game against Luxembourg comes to mind.. If it wasn’t for an own goal by Albania it would have been a tie.

It was pretty lousy – So bad the crowd got on them for it. I can’t really pinpoint a player that played particularly lousy although Robben and Babel were IMO the 2 that were most frustrating to watch. There were a lot of missed chances and some blatant. Pop a few of those in and the whole thing could have turned out different. This is a group with a lot of talent but no consistency whatsoever. Lack of experience will do that and I can hear all the reactions about them getting rid of experience when they got rid of van Bommel and Ruud. But those guys have also not been the picture of consistency. I think what they need is a few Cocu or Stam type players thrown in the mix to replace some of the guys that have little upside in them. (a guy like Landzaat comes to mind as someone worthy of replacement but Ooijer has been dreadful as well)
I don’t know where Van Basten will find that type of player now that he has pissed of just about anyone from the old guard. A guy like Dirk could have made a big difference today IMO simply by the amount of energy he generates and displays. Babel clearly did not belong.
As it was it was very frustrating to watch especially after the great game they played last Saturday.

come on Oranje fans! All of our results have been pathetic in these Euro qualifiers, who cares how good the team looked against Bulgaria, they are sub-standard opponents! We should look like men playing boys against this level of competition, that we have struggled to beat at all. It’s nice to be positive and everything but I for one am very worried about the standard of play displayed by the Van Basten era Oranje. And all of you should be too!
We have become as inconsistent and predictably mediocre as England under Sven Gorn Ericsson. Sure we might make it through qualifying but no one will regard us any threat in the elimination rounds, and rightfully so! I don’t believe this team under the guidence of the current regime expects much from themselves, and that is something I could not have said about the Oranje teams of the past. I can’t put my finger on it but this team seems complacent to inevitable defeat; ok, I can, it’s Van Basten! All the players left who will play for him are more concerned about staying on his good side than playing to win, if they see an opportunity for a play that goes against the specific instructions he has directed them with, they are too timid to make it, fearing his displeasure and rath if it doesent work out, or even if it does. Van Bommel, for one did not play like that, but rather played to take his chances regardless of wether it fit into Van Bastens prescribed scheme or not, and look what happened to him.
Ruud sat in the middle up front waiting for balls that never arrived from the wings, exactly like Van Basten instructed him and look what happened to him. Now the rest of the team is so on edge about their place vis a vis Van Basten that they are more preoccupied with not pissing him off than winning the game; this manager has failed us already but it will probably take another humiliating performance in the Euro’s to bring the Van Basten era to an end. Van Basten said he was looking beyond the WC this summer, now I am looking beyond Van Basten and hopeing that the bright side will be young players gaining some valuable international experience so they can restore our deserved place among the worlds football elite once a new manager is chosen that can light a fire in their desire to win, not put the fear of god (Van Basten) in them. Hup Holland.

we sucked big time, could have lost the game!! 1 half was decent, second half was pathetic, worst game Robben played for Oranje ever! vanPersie was goog the first half, didnt see him in the second, midfield was lousy: deJong sucks, Landzaat missed 3 open chamges on goal, defence was ok though they lost concentration in the second half
dont have much time now, ill give a decent comment in a day or two

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Watched the game today on eurosport. I feel every angry word on this thread. Our midfield and attack were just dreadful.

3 indispensable players were missin last night. Seedrof, Van Nistelrooy and Van Bommel. They should be back in the squad asap.I just cannot understand how Van Basten does not see that..
I guess what he did with the “old guard” is just irreparable now. There should be a considerable change soon.. very soon. A change of style, performance, management and character or a change of coach. Before it’s too late.

ps: i dont understand what the hell van basten sees in landzaat!!!!!!!!!

Posted from  United Kingdom

@ RAMI

Van Basten did see that van Bommel and van Nistelrooij should play which is exactly why he invited them. They refused.

It seems that Oranje are generating enough chances, they just need a finisher/goal poacher such as van N.

I also think someone like Kuyt should play CM. He’s gritty, he’s a great passer, and very defensive. And he can obviously score.

Posted from  Canada

As happy as I am that they are finding a way to get reults(although 2-1 vs albania can hardly be considered a win) its almost as if this is bad for our squad. Marco will continue to go with his Lanzaats and Babels. THen boy will we ambushed in the finals. Why can we all see this! What is happening? Help us!

Posted from  Canada

After watching our team struggle for results under Van Basten I decieded to check out how England fans are handling their new manager; to see how years of mediocracy have effected their attitudes. If you want to check out what really pissed off fans sound like check out this site and hope this doesen’t happen to us! http://goonerboy.blogspot.com/2006/10/can-england-sink-any-lower.html

That England is losing to Croatia or drawing with Macedonia cannot be an excuse for Holland to play such terrible football against Albenia.I never rated England as a great football team ,although they mesmerised Holland in Euro ‘96.There has been a gradual transition of football standard in Europe in recent years.I reckon the eastern European teams are playing attractive football,teams like Croatia,Czech Republic,Serbia and some former Soviet states like Georgia are playing attacking and dominating game.The Croats and Czechs are physically very strong like the Germans.In my view,Italy,Franch and Germany are the top 3 teams in Europe.I hate to admit,Portugal should also be in the top 5(no Dutch fan should ever forgive the Portugese after the ‘battle of nuremberg’).Holland is now a mediocre team.I know they have not lost in more than 2 matches in almost 2 years time,but then again they have not won against any formidable opponents also.The idea of replacing of a whole generation of proven footballers by a tallented bunch of yongsters wont bring any success in knockout stages of major tournaments.In this blogsite I read about the Dutch leage getting poor in quality which is true.But leagues in Portugal and even in the Eastern European nations are also not that great.In these days there are no great world class players(i.e.upcoming latin american talents for example) in the Dutch league ,previously we had Ronaldo,Romario etc.Is there any shortage of financial support for the clubs.Playing in a so called nordic league or north sea league with Belgium etc will be wastage of time.To improve u must play with quality teams,losing of Ajax to a Danish club is inexcusable.Qualifying in the Champions League would have given the players a valuable experience.Somehow I feel that the players are not playing for their nations pride, rather they r playing just to please the coach so that his place is secured.My hats are off to Kuyt and Van Persie for plaing their hearts out in these qualifying matches. For each and every member of the 15 million Dutch,football is a religion.The KNVB and the coach MVB does not have any right to disgrace this religion.I am not ready to die before I see Holland as world champions.

Posted from  Bangladesh

world champions?
I think it is unthinkable in near terms. euro champ, may be.No unreal world class team won the wc title along the history while even Greece won for euro.
Simply we don’t have mid-fielders for that prize.
Even euro success can be acheieve if and only if,
1 Remove hardheaded Basten-Cruyff regime once an forever.
2 Forget about domainancy game while you don’t have strong mid-field.
3 Find out an appropriate coach who can motivate the brave hearts like Persie, Kuyt, Bula, Sneijder..ect to lead the whole team.
Mansur,
do you think Knvb will go that way?

Posted from  Myanmar

so..now only the England game left this year, its been a pretty shitty year for Oranje..

Game against Bulgaria was alright, esp. first half i saw some decent play upfront (first goal was a nice attack), looked like they played with hart…so my hopes were high for the match against Albanie…how wrong of me!!

Together with the Luxembourg game this was the worst ive seen them play this year…Robben played awfull, vanPersie was only there in the first half, Babel should not wear an orange shirt..

midfield: Sneijder played ok first half, deJong and Landzaat should also not play in ‘het nederlands elftal)

defence: only tested once and it got Albanie their goal!!

so very sad to see vanderSar play for time (like in Luxembourgh) i mean playing for time against those kind of countries is so very sad….

i know im running in circles here…vanBasten has no way back..he screwed things up and now he cant pick the best dutch players anymore…this midfield wont hold up against any decent team like Italie,Germany etc. they will be played apart..

after the WC i hoped for a certain growth (with the team and its manager) i see neither so vanBasten and the KNVB failed (but im sure nothing will happen)
well qualify without much trouble, well be out after the first big game….

still want vanBasten to go and first learn his trade..

btw: hope Jan is ok

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

aye
Jan!
where have you been?

Posted from  Myanmar

MVB should do whatever it takes to get Seedorf into the midfield. He along with Van de Vart and Sneijder could be reasonably effective. The team’s attackers have the potential to be very strong, IMO–and the defense ain’t bad. I think Seerdorf is the missing link.

Posted from  United States

Hi guys, i’m back. Needed to travel the last 2 weeks and haven’t been able to catch up. I was in Holland though, saw both matches and soaked up all humbug surrounding MvB et al.

I’ll post some new stuff soon (although you guys covered it all, very well done!!)

Posted from  Australia