Marco needs to release Ruud…

yes, but the truth is we havent had a real winger (a 4-3-3 winger) since Marc Overmars

made a comment last week about Overmars and how well hes missed…not cause he was the greatest footballer of all time but cause he was the perfect winger in a 4-3-3 system…he could cross with both feet, had enough speed to get to the backline..always played wide so the playingfield was big..

vanPersie, Babel, even Robben are not real wingers…they play on the wing but cut inside all the time and so make the playing field much smaller..thats what happening ‘today’ with Oranje

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

i dnt think we can say kuyt, ruud, and huntelaar are not good. they are good in their club. kuyt scored twice on tuesday, ruud best scorer in spain and huntelaar showed on many occasions the extend of his talent.

i agree with those who think the real problem that the wingers dnt pass the ball. van persie on the right means no cross at all, and robben is quite selfish. even van der vaart does not really pass when on the wing.

but i think there is much hope coz babel is deveoping into a real winger who pass and cross!! van persie is becoming a team player at arsenal this year. robben?? i think all pressure should be removed off the strikers and put on the wingers!

yes; missed a comment on Kuyt scoring twice and having one assist…anybody watch it??

Huntelaar has really lost it (altough he scored 4 the other day) ,he was terrible yesterday…but hell be back, all young strikers have periods like this..

not so sure about Babal Xerox.. he plays 4-4-2 at Liverpool, hes more of a nr10 coming from the left…Babal always cuts inside and shoots on goal…the assist he gave to Kuyt in the Swiss match was great but not what he usually does…

maybe Bruins will be a real winger in the future

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

Why doughtin 4-3-3
Roban55/sub babel,ruud, vanpersie
Drenthe,vaarrt,(a hard worker with good physic and brilliance for holding mid feild-Really i dont care my choice hedwings/ZNO)
donk,mathjenson,ooiger,heitinga
then u see the differce
i bet u all
We will win by minmum 2-0 against bulgaira and albania

Ruud can’t score if he doesn’t get the ball. Nobody can. If your system doesn’t get your point man the ball – don’t use it. Simple as that.

Simple idea at this point: with the guts of the team being on Real Madrid – just use Real’s system whatever it is and make the other players fit in to that.

It is ridiculous to think that you can undo all the Club coaching in a few weeks. So look at what the main club is using and go with it.

Second, Oranje has to get a fast, strong, ball-controlling, good passing back line. Look hard at which 4 will give you that and then start thinking about your mid-field and strikers. And for your backline – ask some people to move back, particularly on the sides. Gio – please step back.

Posted from  United States

Here is my line up again:

1- Van der Sar

2-Kromkamp (why van Basten doesn´t trust him?)-right back
3-Heitinga- libero
4-Donk-Mathijsen-Bouma or even Hofland (this position is causing a lot of trouble but I don´t think Seedorf can play there, he doesn´t know how to mark top forwards)-stopper
5-Emmanuelson- left back

6-De Zeeum, Schaars, Maduro although my favorite for holding midfielder is van Bommel but you know the story.

7- Afellay- right midfielder
8- Seedorf-Sneijder- offensive midfielder
11- Robben- left midfielder

9-van Nistelrooy- centre forward
10-van Persie- shadow striker

This is my favorite line up for Bulgaria´s game but I think San Marco will have other ideas. He will bench Seedorf, will not consider Kromkamp, will exclude at least one of the midfielders the I suggest here and will start withe his 4-3-3 that is now working since the World Cup. I have bad feelings about that game, hopefully we win but with the current team play I doubt it a lot.

Well mario u r coming into track ur mid and front is good
but backline
We need belivable defenders with attack in mind
donk is ok
mathjenson is ok
heitnga is ok
kromcamp is offencive(but not belivable)
Just change ur position
Heitinga
OOiger
Mathjenson
Donk
we needs four ferdinands in back
then find equal subs for these line
same
Can u use Zedorfin the knock out stages of EURO2008 .
we r having enough talents but no good hard workers in midfeild
let us see
pray for orange

Why cannt we call back ron varl
unfortunately lurink is injured
We should not omit castelen from our
front six
my front six
Roban=babel
Nestel=hantlaar
Van persie=castelen
Castelen is far better than dirk quite can play behind nestel and persie
MId
Vart=afleaay
Zno= hedwings
Drenthe=?(Gio/de saaw dont care no differance).

Why not put Persie as the central mid, a classic no.10, and have him flanked by a couple of defensive minded mids(DeZeeuw, Schaars etc.) Throw Castelen on the right wing and Robben on the left, with obviously Ruud as the central striker.

Posted from  United States

yes, think vanPersie ie a waste as a winger, think even vanBasten knows that..hell play vanPersie on 10..
Samuels point i find very interesting… think actually that vanBasten has fought of that aswel, remember that in the beginning he tols us that he wanted to play: 4-3-3, attacking football with a lot of pressure and ball possession..then he started to cap all the Ajax players..a coincedence????
actually never tought of it that way..do these players have problems adapting to 4-3-3 when they play for Holland when theyre used to play different with their clubs (exc. Ajax)?? always tought all dutch could play 4-3-3…interesting..should we adapt?

heres mine:

Posted from  Netherlands

@Stephen, interesting but i think that if marco fielded a starting eleven that included Castelen, Schaars and de Zeeuw while leaving van der Vaart, Sneijder and Seedorf on the bench, people would think he was crazy (including most of us on this blog). We have plenty of players that would be good in the no.10 position, what we need is a solid midfield anchor and a smooth passing center back.

Posted from  Canada

oeps! here then:

vdSar

Kromkamp (agree Mario..why??)

Mathijssen

Boula

Bouma (not his fav. position but Emmanuelson has totally lost it)

deZeeuw (maybe hes the answer to our ‘nr4 problem’}

Sneijder (in form, confidence is high)

Seedorf (hate the way vanBasten still treats him)

Robben (is he actually fit?)

vanPersie (nr10…ofcourse)

vanNistelroooij

Posted from  Netherlands

Goose,

Think Van Baasten has thought of what could work, but he just doesn’t seem to offer much evidence that he’s really good at reacting.

He seems to be pretty stubborn in holding to a set up which his players aren’t all that used to.

Really would like to see who he can get to make that back line move. Because that’s where the attack starts. You get the ball and then move it up. Occasionally bomb with long ball, but generally take the turn and start moving upfield.

Posted from  United States

Samuel; well there was this moment during the game against the Swiss which might be importent:
we started with 4-3-3 with vanPersie on the left and vdVaart on 10..then after about 25 minutes you could actually hear vanBasten shout:” with 2 up front ” and vdVaart on left midfield…he actually played 4-4-2 the rest of the half..after half time Babel came on and it changed back to 4-3-3..think vBasten liked the second half better so my guess is he will play 4-3-3 with Babel as a winger

my solution is deZeeuw, good footballer, good skills, pretty strong, hes a defensive midfielder already, maybe him? but yeah, its a big problem, we need to get to our attack cause thats were our strenght is..we need to feed Ruud the goal hungry Brabander

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

@Igor, I agree with you up to a point. It seems when we have all these ’superstars’ in there it is not working well. Is it ego?, I don’t know. But if you put VdV, Sneijd, Seedorf, RvP, RvN, and Robben on the field, who is going to be the teeth and muscle of the midfield? Out of that group, none of them. A couple of them may need to be sacrificed for some good ole fashioned blue collar types, in the Davids mold, providing bite to the team. I don’t know who that is, but I don’t think we can have all these attack minded players on at once. And if a couple have to be sacrificed from the starting XI, so what? They will make for a couple of good super-subs. A good balance is what Oranje needs to strike.

Posted from  United States

congrates to seedorf for winning the CL midfielder of the year… he seemed to be in good spirits at the at the award ceremony… maybe because he’s back in the dutch fold…

Posted from  Canada

I like your last line up Goose, almost the same as mine´s. Perhaps we should take over and get rid of van Basten and his mate van´t Schip! Hahaha.

Marco is seemingly incapable of adapting his thinking and tactics to his players. He’d be better off playing a 4-5-1 then the favored 4-3-3. At least with this system the offensive minded players would have better support and it would force them wide. I’m with Goose on the Overmars comment. Width, speed and opportunities in the box, and when we loose possession get back and defend instead of complaining to the ref. Robben is talented but self absorbed. He wants all the glory but none of the work.

I actually remember reading that Marco was selecting players from the Dutch league specifically because they were used to the 4-3-3 system. If we recall he called up over a dozen newbies when he first took over. Now he’s trying to hammer square pegs into round holes.

Last thing. What I was really wondering was, is there any strikers that have gone on to be successful coaches? Strikers are snipers, not generals. You gotta be a leader to be a coach. It’s becoming painfully obvious Marco’s no general.

Posted from  Canada

Goose: I saw the game Kyut played the other night. He was unbelievable, two goals and that assist to Crouch-WOW. We need that type of performance for Oranje next month.

My line up would be this:

1-GK van der Sar / Stekelenburg

2-RB Zuiverloon / Tiendalli

3-CB Ryan Donk / Heitinga

4-CB Ron Vlaar / Gijs Luirink

5-LB Emanuelson / Drenthe

6-DM Maduro / De Zeeuw

8-M(Right) Sneijder / Afellay

10-M(Left) van der Vaart / Schaars

7-Wing(Right) van Persie / Aissati

11-Wing(Left) Robben / Babel

10-Striker Nistelrooy / Huntelaar

It will suit with 4-3-3 formation. We need to change and make big impact on our defenders.

Posted from  Indonesia

clarence seedorf is the best midfielder of the champions’ league. confratulations! the whole world knows that he’s a worldclass player,but marco benches this semi-god…

line up maybe…) – it’s a 4-4-2 with only one holding midfielder (drenthe) but actually i’d prefer a more secure 4-2-3-1:
1 vds/stekelenburg

2 heitinga/kromkamp
3 matthijsen/vlaar
4 de zeeuw / donk
5 emmanuelson/gio

6 drenthe/schaars
10 seedorf/babel
8 sneijder/affelay
7 van der vaart/robben

11 van persie/kuyt
9 rvn/huntelaar

Posted from  Hungary

Wat a fucking 25
stil with Kew jalins,denny landsaat
horrible
MY starting 11 from this 25
4-3-3
Van dar sar
LB-wilfred bouma
CB-Mathjenson
CB -Ander ooiger
RB- heitinga
Holding MId-DE saaw
attcking mid 1-vart(can sub with Zedorf)
attackin mid 2-afaleey
LEFT forw-Babel
Central sriker-NESTEL
RT forw-Vanpersie(can come inside can give freedom to afaleey to rihgt wing)

Dear dear dear vasbasten pick the right team and get the trophies
I challege u MR Vanbasten u will not touch th trophy eu2008if u r taking
Jaliens
DE cler
Land saat
znider
Haiselink
Bulahruz
dirk quite in the team.
Why beco u r omitting
Hedwings
Casteln
Donk
Zuiverloon or krompcamp
ron varrl
lurink
We need tireless mid feild machines with good physical size

@Stephen,

i totally agree with you, i did not mean to imply that seedorf, vdv and sneijder should all be on the pitch at once, i was just saying that i don’t think that marco can bench all 3 of them in favour of young inexperienced players like castelen, schaars and de zeeuw. but you’re right without some gritty and hard working midfielder(s), there would be no one to recover posession and feed the ball to the skilled players. i always thought that cocu was great in that defensive mid position, and for sure davids was great at adding some bite and determination (and skill too) to the mid. i have high hopes for de zeeuw in that position actually.

Posted from  Canada

Apparently if Holland fail to qualify, then San Marco will no longer be coach. It was part of his contract.

But ya, I want v.d.vaart to play as van gol’s shadow, with robben(babel), and v. persie on the wings. Sneijder and drenthe should wing v.d.vaart. Ooijer, Heitinga, mathijsen, and bouma should be the defense, with the jolly green giant in net.

Posted from  Canada