Maduro, Beckham, Van, Ooijer…

I hope you guys find the team and the coach that does justice to the fine football of your country.
I’m from Argentina but I always admired and respected orange.
Believe it or not, many people in my country do.

Posted from  United States

I wait for the result. At least, Marco is brave enough to be against the whole nation.

Posted from  Australia

Marco lost the plot, dropping to players who play for the biggest clubs in the world…

agree ferenc, we have very few real caracters(?) left in the team..

Marco is arrogant as he was as a player but as a player he proved himself so he was in a position to be arrogant..now its different..we havent played one single good game under Marco, he should be far more humble…

a compliment to anybody who can tell me what is going on in his mind!!

Marco, you better go!!!!

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Seems to me everyone is forgetting that he has only lost one game since taking over. (2 if you count the friendly against Italy)
They came out of a very tough group in the WC very convincing.
Van Bommel and van Nistelrooy both did not impress at the WC, personally I don’t think we have the luxury of playing a guy like van Nistelrooy who has never been a great soccer player, only a great finisher.
I have my concerns as well, don’t get me wrong but I don’t have them with the coach as much as I have them with the lack of talent we seem to have on the midfield. If you asked me before the WC I would have added defense to that concern as well but the defensive record has been very impressive, never mind the fact that it is put up by what can only be called a bunch of no names.
What we lack more then anything is a good experienced hand in the midfield especially now that Cocu has retired. Van Bommel is not that guy, he has shown absolutely nothing. As for Davids; yeah I love the guy but he is long past his prime and very volitile. Seedorf is probably the best option but his playing style really is not suitable to this team. I suspect that Maduro will eventually be the guy while for the time being Landzaat will play.
On the bright side I think that with Robben, Huntelaar and van Persie we will have an extremely strong offense for years to come.
Give van Basten a chance; he did not have the talent and experience that Advocaat had on his team. Currently there are a lot of great 19 and 20 year olds playing in Holland as proven with the succes of jong Oranje.

Robert: ok,rvn is only a great finisher,but vennegor is neither a food soccer player,nor a good finisher - and he’s still in the squad…

maybe van bommel hasn’t shown anything,but landzaat? and i think seedorf is intelligent enough to adopt his style to this team,and as a footballplayer he’s 10 times better than the whol present miedfield together (except van der vaart).
don’t joke about maduro,he’s only 20 without any experience… and maybe not as talented as fans think

ok,rvn and van bommel didn’t impress but who did at the wc except van der saar,robben, van persie and sometimes boulahrouz?

Posted from  Hungary

The problem is not so much the players, or the fact that Marco doesn’t want to work with Ruud or Bommel. My issue with Marco is:
1. the way he treats players who have given a lot to Oranje and the fans. The jokes about Davids, the way he pushed Ruud aside… That is not something a person with class would do. And before the WC he even stated publically that “Ruud would have his support thru and thru…”
2. the way Oranje plays. I do think we have a good enough midfield, but due to the insecurities in the back our midfield plays very close to the defense. Yes, we do not give away any goals because of that, but we cannot dominate at all and we sort of rely on the individual class of Robben and Robin for goals. Furthermore, our midfield is static. Sneijder played like a last defender, Cocu misses the dynamics (age I guess) and Bommel… I don’t know. But the lines (defense, midfield, offense) do not mix well, the space between the lines is too big etc etc. I think, with a player like cocu in the last line of defense, our midfield would have more confidence to push the opponent back an all would/will fall into place. Looking back at the WC, that’s why in my opinion Ruud couldn’t impress. No delivery to him whatsoever. And when he did get that one pass, he scored…

Posted from  Australia

i was optimist for euro 2008, but looking at the selection, i think it’s gonna be more of the same again. high hopes, great words, but no results.

van Basten got to learn more on how to treat players. Scolari, had fate all the way in Pauleta, even if he did not score in euro 2004. now portugal is the 4th best country in the world.

a player like Seedorf, would have brought much to the midfield compared to vennegor for example who did nothing at all really in the world cup.

Seedorf could have played in place of the injured Van der Vaart or van bommel or even on the left in place of cocu who was not at ease there.

a world cup is not a computer game where we can try odd tactics (Cocu on the left, sniejder in front of defense, or van persie on right, kuyt on left - against argentina)

@jan, amen to that my girlfriend!!
We need a people -manager like Hiddink, hes a guy who gets the most out of every player he coaches…

true Robert, we lost very few games BUT we never played a single good game..only maybe 20 min. against Germany and one half against the czechs…

Maduro sucks!! He plays like an old lady…

now i never was a Seedorf fan but the ease in which Marco but him aside was disgusting, same with Davids and now Ruud en Mark.. for the first time Marco is getting real slag in the media..

Greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Welcome The Janssen(!!), Marco’s only looking towords Holland, unbelievable…

here a possible Oranje with just players playing abroad:

Makaay en Van Nistelrooij strikers, midfield Van Bommel, Seedorf, Davids en Zenden and a backline Kromkamp, Vlaar, Opdam en Bouma, (Stekelenburg in goal)

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Marco is really not showing respect for players. Dumping on players when he doesn’t pick them is just uncalled for.

And in retrospect Van Baasten has made a few dumb moves. Wouldn’t Makaay have worked well with Van Persie and Robben? That stealth attacking style looking to follow up on the pressing of the two others? The subs against Portugal? etc.

This record is in huge contrast to Rijkaard who called a horrible game in Italy in the Semifinal in Euro (but the team was overwhelming which was a credit to the coach lest we forget). But boy has he shown a tactful side in Barca. Remember when he let go of all those players at once? Remember him saying a single word denigrating anyone? No, it was high praise and thank you.

But, the Netherlands has played well under van Baasten. The game they knocked out the Czeches in qualifying was quite impressive. So Oranje can do it.

But boy, I’m not sure that having the coach act petulently as well as the players will be a long term improvement. I’m hoping the Cruijff will take him aside and get him to knock it off.

Posted from  United States

my “dream team” - maybe marco would like this one:

timmer - jaliens,opdam,matthijsen,de cler - de jong,landzaat,maduro,janssen - kuijt,vennegoor

Posted from  Hungary

Goose,
I think Marco’s focus is less on where a player plays then it is on what the potential upside is in terms of a tournament that is 2 years away. Qualification for that tournament should not be the problem, doing well at it will be one. Is there an upside left to selecting someone like Zenden or Davids?? (The one person on your list that I would have loved to see in Germany is Makaay; especially in the role of game breaker late in a match.)

I seem to be one of the few that thinks Marco is doing alright although I agree with Jan’s criticism regarding some of the statements made about players lacking class. I think when it comes to the press he is simply inept and he would do much better to keep judgements about players to himself. It may turn out to be his downfall but I hope not.
I also think that he does not value experience enough. I would love to see him mix some experienced hands in but you need experience of the “mentor” and leadership variety and I can’t see anyone on your list that I would put in that category. (van de Sar comes to mind, Cocu in that regard was also an excellent choice as was Ooijer)

I guess where I differ in opinion with most of you is that I really believe he got a lot out of a pretty meagre group of talent. That talent is simply not there in the current crop of Dutch players. You cannot compare what Marco has to pick from with other eras where Holland was successful. When he himself played with Gullit and Rijkaard you had just with that trio a group of players that were among the stars of their time. The Bergkamp - Kluivert era once again had 2 huge soccer stars with just those 2 players, never mind a Davids who back then was in the prime of his career.
Who are those stars now on this team or in this era??
I can hear the comebacks to that statement. What about Robben and van Nistelrooy? Hey, I don’t see it that way. To me a true star is someone that makes those around him better. All those that I mentioned fall into that category. The current crop has a few players that can at time show some incredible individual actions but the only one that deserved consideration in the star category was Van Persie.
The CL awards nominees count not a single Dutchman.
Sure there are some decent Dutch players but these are not the glory years of Dutch soccer.
In light of that I think Marco did pretty good.
What I do see is a generation coming up that will bring some glory back and these players are going to get their experience in what should be a winnable qualifying series.

goose, watch that old lady stuff mate, I’m not that young anymore myself you know and I do not play like Maduro…

Posted from  Australia

@Jan, sorry….you probably play a lot better than him!!

@Robert: very true we cant compare with teams from the past, but i never did.. just think that with different players we would have a better team and better football. I dont expect these guys to become WC winners but i have the feeling that Marco is not able to get the best out of his players, again, i would like to see Hiddink show Marco how to be a real manager and built a great team (out of mediocre players like Korea or Australia)
btw: my list was not my favo selection of dutch players so i agree with your Senden comment..

greetz

WIJ HOUDEN VAN ORANJE

(NOG STEEDS)

Posted from  Netherlands

Funny we all remember Kluivert as being such a big star. He never scored as many as Makaay did in a European season. Always looked great on the field, but never quite nailed it.

In the current crop of players, maybe they aren’t the superstars of AC Milan or Ajax, but Makaay and Van N led their leagues in scoring recently. That’s pretty impressive.

But the best analysis I saw during the Cup was that Oranje traditionally had one great long bomber on the backline. Someone like de Boer or Koeman who could just boot the ball accurately down the field.

They don’t have that now, and it makes it much more difficult to build in the midfield. (Because the midfielders don’t have to worry about you drilling it over them quickly.)

Posted from  United States

Samuel,
One big difference is that Kluivert in my opinion was a much more rounded soccer player. Van Nistelrooy can score and has proven time and again that he can do so extremely well but that is about all he brings to the game. The only time you will ever notice van Nistelrooy is when he scores. Kluivert IMO always played better playing in and for Holland simply because the style played there suited him better. Personally I would love to see him end his career for a Dutch team.
Your point regarding a long bomber on the back line is accurate I think. Once again I can’t think of a player that will fill that role and I come back to my point that it is slim pickings in Dutch soccer at the moment. I like the choice Van Basten made in Janssen on the midfield. Not a big name but in my opinion he may be another Ooijer type for Oranje. Calm, extremely competent and a player that makes few mistakes. Lots of critisism in Holland on that move of course but I think I understand what Marco is looking for when he selects players like Landzaat, Ooijer and Janssen. They are the type of players that will give you less flash but also a lot less mistakes allowing those around them to play with more creativity.

@Robert: about Kluivert, its true is was a good footballer a.w.a. a good striker which is pritty rare (vanBasten?) but remember outside of Oranje he only played 2 decent club seasons(including his time with Ajax), never liked Kluivert, never liked his attitude (inside and outside the pitch), but is is true that he did great for Oranje, guess the team really suited him

maybe Janssen is more of a Cocu type with more creativity but with less intelligence..

well see what tomorrow will bring us my friends..

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

kluivert was great,a complete striker, and he could have become a new van basten,but his mentality…

about long bombers: before f. fe boer,r. koeman ruud krol was also excellent in this role. at this wc cocu could have played the same as a central defender like he did sometimes at barca. is anyone in the u-21 squad who is able to do this?

Posted from  Hungary

@Robert,
mayb u r right, there mayb less tallent than in 98, but van basten is even more restricting his team of tallent by not selecting ruud, seedorf or even van bommel (played in the champions league final last year!!)

Latest news my friend,

vanderSar(captain) was openly critical towords Marco today on dutch tv, he said he was ’surprised’about vanBasten choise to not select vanB en vanN..
lets see what the newspapers say tomorrow…

btw. Huntelaar will start.

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

marco will drop van der saar too?

Posted from  Hungary

Great points above: Kluivert had more skills than Ruud. He was a fabulously talented all-round player who could easily have played all over the field.

But he never had the determination, and never worked that hard. He was famous for a great partier.

Also, I’m not questioning the picks Marco is making - I’d go with Van Persie, Robben and Huntelaar. Mainly because Van N didn’t seem to mesh all that well with Van P and Robben. But I sure as heck would want Van N - and Makaay on my bench.

And as coach I’d definitely want to reward Van N’s loyalty and hard work - with lavish praise.

Let’s face it - voetballers have huge egos - you need to stroke them a little bit.

And one more thing: Tell Robben - stop diving!!!

Posted from  United States

@Samuel: funny to see that Robben gets booed everywhere he plays, he made a real name for himself, very shamefull..we dont want divers in the national team (nor anywhere else), lets leave that to our portugees friends… im pretty sure Robben wont dive like he did last season..did not see a single dive yesterday so who knows, maybe hes learned….

i was wondering, do you guys think it will be a good choice to select vanNistelrooy even when hes just on the bench, looked like it didnt work for Fergusson and vanBasten during the WC..i always think that Ruuds’ mentality is one of his greatest atributes, wouldnt he be usefull in the team even if he doensnt play???

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

@goose: i think as he’s getting older and there is a better and more complete player he will accept to be in the bench. but during the wc the situation was completely different - we can’t say that kuijt or huntelaar are better. maybe huntelaar. and oranje needs very good subs who can add something plus to the play and ruud definitely can do that.

Posted from  Hungary

@ferenc, agree, and it would be great to have a striker on the bench with the quality that Ruud has..it will keep the other strikers on their toos as well..

will be interesting to see how Ruud will live through all the dissapoitments of the last couple of months..hes real character(?) will show now..

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands