Kluivert in Oranje: only logical!

He is definatley right about the lack of quality defenders. I’m not sure if Kluivert will be able to get into full form as fast as he believes, although I don’t doubt his will. Van the Man could have an amazing comeback, and I don’t see it happening while MvB is still coach, even though I believe he is only the puppet controlled by JC. But that is another matter.
The only solution I see for the immediate is building teamwork. We have some good players, we just have to adapt the playing style to make the most of them. We have wide wingers, able of good crossing, but not a very good (goal-scoring wise) central forward. I think Robben and Robin should be allowed to take shots from far away… I would propose 4-4-2, but we don’t have the quality midfielders to make that possible. So stick with 4-3-3 and just let the wingers go for goal, with Kuijt there as back-up all the time. He can also force the offiside trap deeper into the defensive zone. That will create more space for the wingers (and potentially a number 10, such as a fit vdVaart). It’s the only way I see that we can the best results possible (as far as goals go).

Good post, I agree with most you say, although I do feel we have the midfielders for 442. We really do. Landzaat, vd Vaart, Sneijder, Hoffs, Maduro, there’s some young talented chaps at PSV, we’ve got the bloke at Middlesbrough in England (forgot his name, former Feyenoord midfielder…Boateng!) and many others… 442 could work. But as I said before, it doesn’t really matter, 442, 433, 424, it’s all a matter of execution anyway.. Magnets on a board… The only real problem I see is 1) we lack a skipper on the pitch (Cocu, Blind, De Boer, Keane, Ballack, Ancelotti, Van Hanegem) and 2) MvB’s headstrong anti-social behaviour…

Posted from  Australia

Eh…the only two real problems I obviously meant to say…

Posted from  Australia

i was afraid that this would happen…Kluivert is the most overrated player ever!!! True, he scored some importent goals for Oranje(’96 England, ‘98 Ireland) but remember the team he had around him (Begkamp, Overmars, de Boer etc.),

im pretty sure hell score some goals but that doenst prove a thing cause our legaue is so poor (esp. defence), Kluivert proved the world what kind of player he is already at AC Milan, Barcelona, Valencia, Newcastle…HE SUCKS…. hes only good in partying and whining and blaming other people for his problems…..did you know that the first time ever he contacted the family whos father he killed while speeding was a day before his book came to the stores!!!! but ok this is a footballblog so ill stick to fottball….in Oranje we dont need Kluivert, weve enough decent strikers

mr.Focus, you say we have wingers who are able to cross a ball, well i never see them do that, i thought that was one of our main problems not getting a decent cross to our striker (how many decent balls did vanNistelrooy get this WC, i think vanPersie is no winger at all, i think he should play on the nr 10 position

I day; f#ck these systems, just play the best players (ie. vanBommel, Seedorf) and built around that), 442, 433, it doenst matter..

well, ill just be crossing my fingers now that Kluivert will break both his legs so i wont need to talk about him again….(but remember he played for Ajax so vanBasten will call him in a few weeks!!lol)

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

Goose’
agree u to say Persie is no winger, but Robben is. I don’t think Basten will go for 442 to select Castelan instead of Persie as mfocus said. Kyut is poor scorer but only center forward to support the weakened mid-field very well. Our new 433 moving towards Italian’s 4312 with 3 strikers, with wingers lacking support to striker and more on own attamp. That’s what happening now to the real scorers like Hunter or Ruud.Hunter will have to struggle games after game and Kuyt will replace him later.
At that situation it’s funny to expact Kluivert back again for Orange

Posted from  Myanmar

wat! wen did kluivert kill someone?

Posted from  United Kingdom

Sometimes it’s frustrating to be an Oranje fan. Kluivert is one of the most fabulously talented players to come out of the Netherlands. He was fast, could jump, control the ball everything. But he was lazy and a notoriously hard partier - he was a heck of a lot of fun in Barcalona.

Now he might, just might turn it around, really work hard, and develop back into a really solid player. And that would be nice. But at 30 he’s not going to be a star again. The liklihood? Not great, people generally don’t change that radically.

However, I do think that the Dutch team would benefit if one, just one of a raft of older players does build back into a national calibre player - Zenden, Kluivert, van der Meyde, etc.

It always helps.

Also have to smile at all the talk of letting Van Persie and Robben attack right at the goal. Of course they should. And is there a Dutch striker who sneaks in behind the play? A striker who plays off the other players? And plays for a good club?

Makaay of course. It’s hard to fit all the pieces together - and I don’t envy the choices that Van Baasten has to make. But I’d love to see him try a few of the options out there. Try Makaay. Try Seedorf.

If it doesn’t work (like Van Bommel), fine. But let them go nicely and try something else. But this Ajaz - AZ mindset is frankly a bit weird.

The Netherlands always needs to shift some of its forward talent back - since it almost always has a surplus upfront. So figure out how to do it - and see whether the options work.

But no crying - because my American side is very jealous of all the options the Bondscoach has. If Klinsman could give a few of the Oranje “green cards” he’d probably take the US job in a heart beat. He might even take it if he could just take Van Baasten’s discards. Let me see - Seedorf, Van Bommel, Van N, Makaay.

Posted from  United States

Can’t remember the facts, but after the CL win by Ajax in ‘95 he was responsible for a car collision in Amsterdam that killed the other driver. I think he drove 100 km per hour where 50 was allowed and did not have a license yet. I think. He drove the BMW of a friend, young turks trying to impress on another. A tough thing for a young star in the making to have to digest. I think everyone is a bit too hard on him, to be honest. The guy was declared God when he was 18, he needed bodyguards against all the bimbo’s chasing him (rape charges anyone??)… What can you do? His dad left his mother when Pat was young, they were poor, etc etc. Let’s cut him some slack, I mean “hating” someone doesn’t help right. Let’s not be those people we scoff…

Posted from  Australia

Pierre van Hooijdonk return? anything is possible now… after all he plays in the dutch league…

Posted from  Canada

why the hell didnt he go 2 jail then! thats wats wrong with this world he kills someone and jus coz he is a footballer he can get away with it! he was an idiot and will always be an idiot

Posted from  United Kingdom

@Lars, he got a ‘taakstraf’dont know the english word but sort of community services of 240 hours!! He had his licence but was speeding. The man was a father of two, he never contacted the family (only a day before his book came in the stores!)
he was also suspect in a rape, now i dont think it was a real rape but remember he had a pregnant wife at home at that time…

sorry Jan, dont agree with your ‘he was poor etc’, you know, all the guys in the seventees (esp. Cruijff, Neeskens ,vanHanegem) were poor, Cruijff lost his father at a very young age, vanBasten mother has been in a mental home all his life, vanHanegem lost almost his whole family during the war in Rotterdam, Advocaat lived in the roughest neighbourhood in Den Haag (like Aad de Mos) etc.etc. if anything poverty should be a catalisator (?)

Kluivert just doesnt have any mental strenght, thats why, in the end, he should be regarded as a midiocre talent, nothing more….

btw: he didnt score yesterday playing the Kozakken Boys!!

@SK: agree with the Makaay comment, although hes the kind of player who plays best on the counter attack with a lot of room in front of him….still think vanBommel should work in Oranje, just think vanBasten f@cked him up so hes to tight when he plays for het nederlands elftal

@sfinx: interesting what you say about Kuijt and midfield, havent thought of that, think your right…interesting

greetz yáll

Posted from  Netherlands

van Baasten’s mother was in a mental hospital for most his life. Wow, I never knew that. Boy that makes his struggles with dealing with emotion and bonding much more understandable. In other words that might explain a bit about his not-quite-so-honed skills relating to others.

Because that’s rough on a kid. Wow.

The funny wish I get have another secret wish when I look at Kuijt - and that strong physique with that determined hard-working effort: wouldn’t it be nice to have him on the backline with Khalid? Obviously it would be too radical a switch from what he plays at Liverpool. But boy does he appear to have the tools to be a great defender, too.

And yes, didn’t quite agree with the hammering on Van Bommel. Demoted from Barca? Wow what a horrible failure to end up at such a dead-end group like Bayern!

BTW - I can’t remember the name of the kid, but there was another hot young, black, Oranje player who was signed by Arsenal about a year ago. I think his family name started with an “O”. Whatever happened to him?

Posted from  United States

@SK: he had disciplinary problems and was sold to one of the moscow teams,but i can’t remember his name

Posted from  Hungary

I never knew about his mother’s mental trouble..

But, speaking of rough on a kid:
When Marco was a kid he and his best friend were playing on new ice.. When it broke underneath his friend slipped in. Marco ran for help, but when they arrived it was too late. His friend was gone.

(That has to scar a bit..)

And then the injury trouble with his ankle when he was in his absolute prime..

Posted from  United States

imagine if marco fell in too… no euro cup for holland

@SK why not stick kuijt in net… we have keeper issues on the horizen…LOL

Posted from  Canada

Good one Jip! As for the discussion about Patrick K. He was responsible for that man’s death. No doubt about it. But we all made stupid mistakes like this, driving to fast, driving with a beer too much, or snowboarding to fast or whatever. I think most people will have had their close calls and Patrick was very unfortunate (and so was that man of course…). He is not a bad person. And the comparison with nees, cruyff et al is not 100% on the mark. Patrick was a millionaire when 18 years old! And an internation superstar. Suddenly he had managers, so-called new friends, agents, girlfriends, cars etc. That is not comparable to the other guys mentioned. And may I remind you that Nees went off the rails in NYC, van Hanegem lost most of his money, Cruyff invested in a pigfarm in Spain and lost most of his money (or so they told the taxman :-)), Rijkaard signed a contract at PSV in exchange for a Philips audio system and Gullit once recorded a reggea song… Not so bad as killing someone in a road accident I know, but let’s face it…it was very unlucky too. That rape incident was bullshit. These boys attract all sorts of golddiggers, come on. Every one knows. I can tell you stories of football heroes found drunk in the parking lot of discotheques at the receiving end of blow jobs…

Posted from  Australia

@SK & ferenc: he is Quincy Owusu Abeiye. He had disciplinary problems at young age when was kicked out of the Ajax school. In january he joined Spartak Moskow for money. He played some stunning game in England (right forward) but now I lost sight of him.

Posted from  Italy

Thanks for answer. Disciplinary problems? That doesn’t bode well.

Goal keeper crack is funny on Kuijt. But he doesn’t have those long arms that you gotta have. It’s just when I seem him move so relentlessly - I think - man that would be valuable on defense. But heh, Liverpool knows a lot more about football than I do!

Funny though that Morientes and Van N both scored hat tricks in Spain after being dumped from Premier League teams.

Posted from  United States

The fact that people are seriously considering Klieverts return to Orange speaks to how much trouble our team is really in, @SK, Andy Van De Meyde sucks even more than Klievert. Surely everyone can agree that RVN or JVofH are much better players than PK, so why are we not using the best players available? Management problems! It used to be that the problems stemmed from the players attitude, now its the managers attitude that is the problem, F#$K MVB, he is destroying the national team with his personal opinions on players personalities, if he was a genious with a proven track record of results I might be inclined to follow him, but he has a record of nothing but failure, so far; we are going to get rid of him after we lose the Euros so why can’t KNVB grow some balls and do it now. There is plenty of time to salvage a Euro 08 champianship with a new manager. `Mark my words, we will never bring home a champianship with MVB! He failed us in the world cup with bad decisions and stupid moves. Everyone on this blog cried blooby murder at the classless treatment and benching of RVN, now it is all forgiven? Why? Because were bringing useless Klievert out of retirment as a replacement?`Mark Van Bommel was the only strong personality in the MVB Oranje line-up. He is a thorn in the oppisitions side, he gets under the skin of the opposition, his antics bend the opposing players out of shape, every team would be lucky to have a player like this, he brings out emotion, you have to hate him, unless he plays for your team! forcing him out is yet another big mistake in series of bad MVB desicions. What will it take to stop the bleeding? MVB is the problem, he may have been a great player but he has already proven to me that he is a terrible choice for coach; our only sporadic good results under his tenure have been in spite of him, not because of him. After all the team is stacking with many of the worlds greatest players! I could coach them to a win over most of the worlds national teams; but it will take a great manager to inspire wins against the tough competition we will face in the final stages of tournaments, the competition that matters.

Being a Dutch fan I’m bleeding internally to see these horrendous decisions to bring back Kluivert in the national squad.The team will definitely qualify for the Euro finals of ‘08 as they are placed in a weak group,but they are not going to be successful at the final stages.The players are not in the right frame of mind,they do not look hungry to me,not motivated and they do not play for their national pride.Changing the coach might not make a lot of difference;we have to digest the fact that we don’t have a quality squad,the offence is non-productive,the midfield is fragile ,the defence is skeptic.With only a few true world class players and a not-that-good coach Holland is not going to achieve anything in near future(how tragically tragic will that be!!!).Football is a game of passion,Dutch football has lost that passion.Does anyone has any solution??

Posted from  Bangladesh

Well, since we don’t have the topnotch quality players (I agree with that) I feel we will need to outsmart our opponents with tactical better play and a couragous offensive - 3 strikers - tactics. See, I don’t mind so much that MVB ousted RvN and MvB and Seedorf etc. It’s more that I’d like to hear his reasons. I’d like him to get up in front of the camera and explain in football terms why Landzaat and not Seedorf. Why Kuyt and not Ruud. Those issues will need to be answered for in public. I feel he can’t just say “Seedorf is not good enough” or “Ruud is a big name but not a great player”. That’s snappy soundbites but I demand factual reasons based on football technics and tactics. I think MvB owes that to the Dutch nation.
COME ON MARCO, IF YOU READ THIS, COME OUT OF THE CLOSET!!!

Posted from  Australia

It,s true moment for Basten to give reasons on his team selection, tactics and technics. No body understand him especially while results and perfromances are proved enough.Remember he said his target was not WC2006 but Euro2008, during wc campeign.
As we feel less and less chance to win Euro2008 again, no excuse once he fail again.
Before he remembered as enemy of orange fans still a good time to be frank. Is he emotional, personal, or rational.
Jan! give him (and us) a chance.
Why don’t you start a topic like
“LEND ME YOUR EARS BASTEN”.

Posted from  Myanmar

well, i guess today is my lucky day….Kluivert went off against my own team (Den Haag) after 10 minutes with a hamstring injury..so no worries anymore about Kluivert(altough we lost 2-0)!!!

Misha, great post, you said it all, its just sad that the KNVB doesnt share our thoughts on vanBasten and the latter is to arrogant to change direction..

vanBommel scored the winner for Bayern, he played very well (was called Ballck-light on german tv!, ha,ha), he should be called!!!!!

Kuyt made another one for Liverpool (nice goal)

greetz

Posted from  Netherlands

It’s very funny that Van Bommel is being called “Balleck-lite” because his career has shadowed Balleck twice now. First, barca bought him rather than Balleck. Then second, Bayern bought him to replace Balleck.

And Misha, I don’t think we can beat on Van Baasten for bring Kluivert back, well because, he hasn’t brought Kluivert back. What I thought was good is that he said yes he’d be willing to consider it. And that’s what he should do, if a player proves himself on the field no matter what his age, Oranje should consider sticking him in the line up.

What gets tricky is getting the different parts to play cohesively. And that’s where I am worried, because so far, we haven’t seen a lot of beautiful cohesive play out of Oranje.

But it was still an impressive qualifying campaign. 2-0 four times against the Czechs and Roumania doesn’t suck. Nor did the game against Ireland, nor Belarus.

So let’s hope Van Baasten is learning the incredibly difficult job of a being a good national team coach.

Posted from  United States

Im starting to like to see Kuyt up front, instead of anyone else we got, RvN and KJH, PK or anyone else..
I think Liverpool and english football are the best things that could have happened to this guy, and hopefully in the future to Oranje.
He is a big-shit already at the club. Commentators are already describing him a 20/20 player (20 goals/20 assists per season).. I guess we’ll see as the season unfolds.

Till then,
Fingers Crossed.

Posted from  Russian Federation