JC: It was a pretty good result

dirty portugal?

Put it aside for a moment Rami. You say dirty Portugal, because you fear no one else like Portugal.

This was a great victory for NL. The best football of the Summer in my opinion.

Posted from  United States

yea, you haunt my dreams.. so dirty potugal!

Posted from  Canada

well, theres a little riot starting after this game….

any of you guys remember the ‘kabel’? group of black players during the mid 90 (Kluivert, Seedorf, Davids, Bogarde) who were soooooo proud to be surinam that they acted stupid, wanting surinam food, talking surinam etc., everybody in Holland hated that

now; after this game, Zuiverloon, Waterman, Drenthe and Donk ran to the stands, collected some surinam flags and ran around in them the whole time after the match!! This is a disgrace!!! if these guys are proud of their roots alaa, but if you love Surinam that much, go and play for them..
this has really put many people off in Holland, its something the people talk about more than about the victory

i only want players in Oranje who love holland and are proud to play for us, if you dont then please go away

im telling you, last has not been said on this one…mark my words!!

disgrace, disgrace!!!!! go play for your bush-bush counrty!!

Posted from  Netherlands

Goose, let’s not go there man… The guys are proud of their roots. Let them. It’s cool. They play for Holland now and they gave it their all… So let the chaps party…

Posted from  Australia

no, sorry mate, cant accept that… if you dont want me to adress such a thing alaa, i wont do it after this…but the roots part is bs..these guys are all born here..can you imagine Rijkaard and Gullit doing that??
just warning you about what i see, you do remember all the bs the kabel gave us??
im just telling you cause it has given a lot of anger in Holland..thats all…

btw: all the players who i thought were so-so against England were great now:
maduro, Babal, Bakkal, deRidder, they all played very well indeed (altough im still not sure about deRidder)
great to see Foppe…hes a man who knows how to built a team during a championship…hes almost the opposite of vanBasten..; never been a great footballer, very social, people mamanger, not a friend of Cruijff…
but still think he works best with youngsters..would he be a good bondscoach???

grzt

Posted from  Netherlands

The “kabel” with the Surinamese Ajax-players and their behaviour was a result from the behaviour of the white players, who werent exactly eager to let the black players into the squad.

The white players in Ajax had much higher wages than the black ones. Of course, this conflict also made everything worse in the national team between white Ajax players and black Ajax players. The black players thought they should have the same wages as the white ones while the white players couldnt care less.

The black players indeed started speaking Surinamese, but not because they were overly proud of their roots; most of them couldnt speak Surinamese and just followed those who could in order to unite in the fight against the lack of justice.

It never was about that they were more proud to be Surinamese than to be Dutch. They just didnt like some of their entirely Dutch team mates and wanted to be a bit different.

What Waterman, Drenthe and the other guys did was probably in order to make their parents and ancestors happy, and to show that they dont forget where they come from. Not a problem to me as long as they are a part of team on the pitch as well as off the pitch.

Why should they not be proud of their roots? Do you expect them to feel 100 per cent dutch even if they were born there? And if Dutch football want to pay them money for playing why would they turn it down? Maybe dutch society doesnt make them feel accepted. If the suriname flag waving is so offensive then why dont they stack the team with 8th, 9th, 10th generation dutch players. Im not saying the dutch are as bad and xenophobic as the french, but you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Posted from  Canada

i fink babel was wicked if he can do that consistently and robben get back into the swing of things then them 2 as wingers would be one of the best in the world. looks like all the great wingers are coming out of holland and portugal at the mo, with them having nani and ronaldo..

Posted from  United Kingdom

i fink babel was wicked if he can do that consistently and robben get back into the swing of things then them 2 as wingers would be one of the best in the world. looks like all the great wingers are coming out of holland and portugal at the mo, with them having nani and ronaldo..

Posted from  United Kingdom

Well:

It is obvious that a person who is born in other country has to feel something for that country and be a little bit nostalgic about it. I find it normal and ok, they had the Surinam flag but they wore the Oranje shirt with passion and love and that is what cares the most. So if we don´t want Surinam players let me tell you guys that Holland will have a lot of trouble because many Dutch stars have their roots from Surinam:
Gullit, Rijkaard, Kluivert, Seedorf, Drenthe, Zuiverloom, Donk, Babel, Reiziger, Bogarde and many more.
I think the Dutch national team needs the color players just like England, France or Portugal needs their black players so much. Here we are not talking about races, the world should forget about who is black, white, yellow, green or whatever!!! We are all human beings and everybody has to feel proud of the roots he or she has.
Do you remember guys a player named Jocelyn Angloma???Well, he is like 41 years old and he represented France for many years. He retired from soccer a few years ago and returned playing just recently. Well he now just played the Golden Cup for the CONCACAF zone and he did it with Guadalupe Islands, not France!!!. It was a little shocking for all the journalists and commentators but we have to remember that Guadalupe Islands is France´s territory nowadays and that is why Jocelyn Angloma could play for both countries because Guadalupe Islands are not afiliated to FIFA, they were just guests for the Golden Cup. Funny eh?. But I think that even playing for Guadalupe doesn´t mean that Jocelyn did not love France as much as he does love Guadalupe and that is just one example of a player from another country that feels the same as our Surinamese players. Let them be!

Posted from  Mexico

@Lerkot: your comment on the wages is absolutly bs!! whiter players getting more than coloured ones??? youre joking, certainly not true!
please tell me, were did you get these nonsence???

@Skilss/Mario: you win a tittle in a NATIONAL team (ea netherlands), there are 23.000 people cheering you on because you respresent the dutch..almost all of these guys are 2nd generation (parents born in Holland), and then they start waving a flag from an other independed counrty, i find that very respectful!!
no im not saying they dont love Holland (they should cause iy gave them everything), i just, as a dutchman, find it very disrespectful (like dont think Holland has won but Surinam did)..and just to be clear; its not a racial thing

grzt

Posted from  Netherlands

I think its great, I agree. Congratulations to both Netherlands and Suriname for a wonderful team and year.

Posted from  Canada

Guys, let’s leave the black-white, ancestor-roots, respect-disrespect out of it ok? It’s very hard to put the finger on. I know for a fact that some players felt hard done by the “whites” (I am talking 90s now) and that there was a resentment towards whites. I also know Gullit clashed big time with a coach at Oranje who made racist comments. And, Goose, I know the payment story (at Ajax) as well… Not saying it’s true, but I heard the stories. This time of subjects can easily get out of hand. So, let’s cheer the boys on and look out for Grander Things next summer…

Posted from  Australia

Nice comment Jan!. The important thing here is to win. The flags, color of players, tactics and everything else is juts part of the game but nothing really matters if you don´t win games and cups. And this Holland team has won games and a CUP. Can we ask the boys anything else?. They brought gold to Holland again, if the big boys do that at Austria-Zwitzerland then we will be in a very good position for the next World Cup. We have hugely talented generations coming and that is what should make us all happy. The future is bright for Dutch football. In two years two Europeand Championships is incredible great achievment and we will see the team from last year and this year´s team under 21´s being the base of the Dutch National team in a very short future…guys like Waterman, Donk, Zuiverloom, Vlaar, Pieters, Emmanuelson, Maduro, Schaars, Afellay, de Zeeuw, Babel, Rijgters, Huntelaar, Drenthe, de Ridder and many more will have to confirm their talent and perhaps some will not be able to do so because competition is tough but I am positive that some of them will make the grade just as Sneijder, van der Vaart, van Persie and Robben are doing it. Let´s not forget that Sneijder, van der Vaart, van Persie and Robben are still very young too so we are talking here about a generation that will be presen in many European Championships and World Cups and with the experiencie that they are gaining at some time hopefully the trophy will be the World Cup and when that happens nobody will argue that Holland truly deserves it. Destiny has denied us twice but third time lucky is just waiting for the Oranje!.

Posted from  Mexico

wishful thinking … a beautiful dream!!

the only problem i keep on seeing that is marring that beautiful picture you describe, is the growing debate, soon conflict and real headache, between 442 and 433 total football.

Should we go the easy way, or not. i wonder what the damages would be.

Well, as long as Marco is manager the discussion will be short. He will never step away from 4-3-3 even if it’s only coz he doesn’t want to lose face. And to me it’s bugger all. I mean, you can play with a forward no. 10 (Bergkamp role) next to Ruud and two wide midfielders and tell everyone you’re playing 4-3-3… I really think the whole debate is intellectual masturbation anyway.

I’m more worried about the big step the Maduro’s and Rigters’ of this world need to make to move on. The difference between the U21 team and the bog guns is mentality. There are many skilled players (Quincy, anyone??) who can’t make the step up due to that particular item. Fighting spirit. Living for your sport. Going the distance every day for 10 years in a row. I can see Donk and Babel and Drenthe making it big amongst the big boys. De Ridder, Bakkal, Zuiverloon, Vlaar, Rigters…they’re all question marks to me, to be honest…

Posted from  Australia

Man, many Mexicans cheer for the Dutch, including myself!!!.
Well, I think that debate is useless, team formations are important but what matters the most is fielding your best players around, something de Haan has done and van Basten has not done so far. So, I think that the future of Dutch soccer is brilliant but some changes will have to happen if we wanna be succesful at Euro 08. Perhaps the system, introducing some new players, fielding the experienced guys to have a good mix of youth and experiencie in the team and then the team will rock again, and perhaps one change is the head coach…I doubt that it will happen before Euro 08 but I hope it happens because I don´t think van Basten has the skills right now to guide us to the very top, perhaps in some years he will be a top coach but why wasting our chances when we have a very talented squad in having an unexperienced coach with big ego and bad motivation skills. I think that the pressure for van Basten will increase after the Bulgaria game if the team doesn´t get better because Foppe de Haan has shown the world that Holland is very much capable of lifting trophies and playing nice soccer with any system and if van Basten keeps winning luckily like vs Slovenia then why not look at de Haan???. He still is capable of working at the top level, he is a leader, he has plenty of experiencie, has worked with many of the Dutch young guns and I am sure he will love to finish his career guiding the Netherlands in a big tournamente like an European Championship or a World Cup. Well, only time will tell.

Posted from  Mexico

well , thats still beside the point.. Its not simply a question of formation Jan.. thats too simplistic.. its completely two different ways of football. its total football theory vs conservative conventional football. Weve seen and are seeing both in practise, both work, theyre not only theories.. and when executed they are totally different, and u know that!

As dutch, half dutch, dutch supporters and fans, one of the main things that we identify with in dutch football is our dutch way of playing football. Simply put.. which is none other than rinus’ way of looking at football, namely total football..

now do we want to keep that or not? thats the debate im talking about. the way u are argumenting Jan is something along the lines of ‘as long as the team brings me the trophy i wouldnt mind or care of the cost or damage’. Yes i find it would be much easier to play 442 or anything similar to that. And it might as well bring us the trophy much easier than total football at this point, because most of todays dutch talent and dutch world class footballers adapt their way of playing to the conventional system. And in fact, they are only world class and talented players in that system. if u take VN or seedorf or VB or robben and put them in Ajax in the 70s theyll all fail completely.

And as far as the debate being swift because mr van basten says he wants to stick to total football, thats all crap, because it is much more complicated than simply fitting (more like forcing) todays dutch players into a complex system like the one he advocates. And you need nothing other really than look at the results. what have they been?? failure in germany, and horrible football all along..

In other words, todays dutch talent and stars are no way near pulling off total football way of playing. Not that theyre not good enough, theyre great players, but in a completely different way of playing!

the answer is again, the dutch league. it has to rise up again, and challenge the others, keep the players interested in staying because they would be playing football at the highest level. its the only hope for total football to survive really, and for our players to know how to execute it efficiently, unless, ur an idiot like vb and think u can pull it off by simply calling the players for international duty every now and then and hope theyll know what the hell they’ll be doing on the pitch.

I think experimenting would be good for Marco, you need to change formations from time to time because if you don’t do this the other teams will know what to do and how to mark your players.

Foppe used the 4-3-3 system but when he found out that it wasn’t working as well as before he tried the 4-4-2 and clicked, Marco needs to leave aside his pride and start experimenting new things.

Posted from  Mexico

its not only his pride, but the pride of a whole generation of dutch football u are talking about.

Rami, I think you misunderstood me. I did say it a bit blunt, but it’s a topic that’s been around for a long time on this blog and i’ve wrote different comments on it. I won’t go into it here. I’ll go into it in a specific post. But I can assure you I am NOT from the i-don’t-care-how-we-win-as-long-as-we win-school of thought. You should know that .

Posted from  Australia

I know Jan. I know your not the “i dont care how we win as long as we win” type of thinking.. but also im very skeptikal, and concerned about ” i agree to change to a 442 formation if VB can get to make the national team start playing good” kind of thing..

that easy way is really something id go for as a very last resort, and even then, unwillingly.

im sorry to bring this subject again and again, but thats been solely on my mind after we won on saturday, and after the recent JC/De Haan issue. Much more important and interesting than whether drenthe and rigters should be condemned or not.

btw: heres a tube on saturdays final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndBdQ3hbeI

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

sorry forgot..very nice tube on the team..really nice one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZdWbu6RqI4

Posted from  Netherlands