Greener Pastures for Dutch Talent

Hello my friends.
I have just read the article and I believe this issue is very important because some players have made wrong decisions when picking their club.
I think the players have the “obligation” to have 3 to 5 leagues in their sights (Spanish, English,Italian, German.
To look for the top leagues (only for the top ones) is required to become a top player, that is for sure.
Picking the club is what is important and I want to say that we have in Holland some excellent players who could end up playing in the best clubs of the world (Madrid, Milan, Lpool, Barca, etc.)
Players such as Sneijder, Huntelaar, Emanuelson, Babel, Afellay and many more have the quality not only to play in a top league but in a top club.
They should wait for a top club to come for them because believe me they will come and then study the whole situation over and over.
By studying the situation I mean:
1)Who is the Coach?:
Great coaches are mostly in the top teams (Capello, Ancelotti, Lippi, Van Gaal when he was at Barcelona, Hiddink when he was at Madrid, Mourinho, Benitez, Cruyff, etc.).
These coaches get the best out of the players.
2) Who are the players I’ll be playing with?:
An example I think of is Boulahrouz because he went to Chelsea when they already had 2 of the best central defenders of the world so as a player you have to think about that also.
3)What is the mentality of the institution?

Van der Vaart made a wrong decision when joining Hamburg even when he had success during his 1st year but like him there have been many players who have vanished.
I don’t think Kromkamp made a bad decision by joining Villarreal or Liverpool, I watched some of his games (when he played) and he never made a mistake and played very well. Maybe at Liverpool it is understandable because they already have great players, I didn’t agree with Benitez because Jan is better than Finnan but at Villarreal he was waaaaay better than his competitor for the place and the coach never gave him a real chance.

Holland has plenty of quality players but they must go to the best clubs to be the best players.

I dont think van der vaart made a wrong choice actually.. he is in a club that allows him to be the star, captain, and leader among his teammates and forces him to give the best he can in every match. the responsability is mainly on him to carry the whole team away from defeat and steer them to victory instead.

Analysts see that , and coaches do too, and is currently apprached by many.

Posted from  Canada

i fink that boularouz made a very very bad decision to join chelsea. he was always going to be second fiddle to terry and carvalho. Beacasue mourinho loves carvalho and would never take him out the team. I fink he should have joined someone like tottenham, where jol would have given him a good chance. Wat the good players from holland should do is find clubs where they go on technical ability and skill, like arsenal,barca,man u. Not teams who are physicall ie, chelsea,inter, coz lets face it the dutch are never renound for their physical abilites.

Posted from  United Kingdom

agree with rami on vdVaart, points that MR made are very valid otherwise…

think the most importent ‘thing’in this discussion is the fact that we, as dutch players’have actually more change to get in a top team than players who originate from the country where those top team are from.. always thought that to be the real plus we have as a small footballing nation (when it comes to our national competition) were you can learn your trade as a proffessional and than make a choice if you think (or a foreign club) youre ready for it….all oor players have time to grow as footballers and then go to top clubs to show their growth and talent .. and then we can pick the best dutch players for Oranje (ex. bommel and vNistelrooy ofcourse) from these clubs

Posted from  Netherlands

Well, I think the most important thing here is to that a player takes time to select a top team from a top league. If the player does that he will increase his level of game.
But before signing a contract a player has to analyse something extremely important: who are going to be your competitors for the position you play on the pitch for a place in the starting line up?.
For example, if Klaas Jan Huntelaar is going to leave Holland and chooses Barcelona today I think it will be a huge mistake. Barcelona plays in a 4-3-3 system and their goal getter is Samuel Eto. Eto will not be benched for Huntelaar because he is an idol at Barcelona and will have a secondary role just like Eidur Gudjonhnsen has today.
But if Huntelaar goes to Juventus ha can have a big impact on the team. Juve lost Zlatan because of the relegation they suffered and are searching for a big gun again. Huntelaar will be the ideal candidate to fill that role. David Trezeguet is not the same player than before and Jan Huntelaar can be a huge success in Italy,he has the skill, the determination and with a big team like Juventus he will have plenty of opportunities to score. It is true Dutch players have difficulties in Italy but there have been very successful Dutch players in Italy like Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten, Seedorf and Davids.
It is an example of how a player has to consider his competitors for a place and the coach in command. If you know you are going to play for a very defensive coach like Rafael Benitez and you are a player who likes to attack from defense like a Kromkamp, perhaps Liverpool is not the best place for you. Anyway, I think Kromkamp is not worse than Finnan but some coaches have their favorite players and that has to be considered too. If you as a placer notice that a player in your same position is almost irreplaceable and you are going to sign a contract and that player will continue at the club then you are making a huge mistake. The money will be there but if you go to a club where you know you will have to fight with players who are irreplaceable for his coach then you probably will be on the bench more time than on the pitch, example, Boulah. He went to Chelsea for the money and had a terrible season, now his price is lower than before and surely will be sold to another club where he will gain less money, a player has to be patient to listen the right options and not be desperate because of the money because if they go only for the money and not consider other things like competitors, coaches, type of football and some other factors they will end up failing badly.
I hope the new generation of Dutch talents make the right choices for the good of Dutch soccer.

Posted from  Mexico

Mario … very true, very true!!

I never looked at Juventus as an option for Huntelaar, never heard talk of it in any case, but come to think of it does make a lot of sense for him to go there.. Maybe sneijder as well.
Juventus have the big bucks looking to build a team from almost scratch.. And with deschamps at the helm, i dont see where they could go wrong.

But on the other hand, when i look at boulah’s case, i cant help but make an analogy to Kuyt’s case, which in my opinion is very similar to the former. When Kuyt arrived at liverpool, there was already a famous and important striker, Crouch.. like carvalho.. However, Kuyt was able to make Crouch almost obsolete at times, while Boulah never really looked stronger than Carvalho.. So my point is that its not really necesary for a dutch growing talent to look for a team where it has an available place in the first eleven. Boulah did have his changes, he blew them, big time.. and more than once!! Call it a series of unfortunate events hehe, i dont know.. but boulahs chances were there. He just needed to grab them and slowly consolidate his place in the first eleven, which he did not do.

Posted from  Canada

note on the side… Van der Vaart strikes again aginst nurnberg.. and van gol also against espanyol..

If ruud maintains top goalscorer of the league, Van Basten should go and stick his head in the sand.. if not already!

Posted from  Canada

In my opinion, Robben also chose wrong club. Mourinho prefer the workers like Lampard, Essien. 2 years ago, Lampard, Terry and Drogba were not as good as now, but now they’re stronger while Robben just get worse and worse.

Posted from  United States

These things are soo hard to judge. Robben was acquired by the Italian Chelsea coach who preceeded Mourinho at Chelsea. Forgot his name. Mourinho said before he bought Boulah that he was a fan! So, you’re Boulah, they offer you millions and an opportunity to win big prices and the coach states he is a fan! What do you do?

Huntelaar has been linked with Juve for months already. They apparently did a couple of scouting trips to the Ajax Arena. But then again, most big clubs know exactly what talent plays where in the - in this case - Dutch talent competitions. So, Huntelaar in his PSV days was already a known talent, I suppose. Rarely players emerge out of nowhere (Jaap Stam, Boulahrouz, Ryan Donk, Demy de Zeeuw) but players like Maduro, Babel, Vincken Huntelaar are/were on most scoutinglists in Europe.

Posted from  Australia

Oh, and something else… In the past, it was always the real “football” minded people at clubs who selected and bought new players. Scouts were former players and coaches did not have a lot of management skills (talking about the 60s, 70s and 80s here…). With the rise of the teacher/coach this changed. Van Gaal and Adriaanse (when the worked together at Ajax in the early 90s started to actually interview players at home (!) to get a feel for his personality, personal goals, motivations, communications skills, etc… If it happened for instance that van Gaal was not so impressed with those aspects (Roy Makaay when he still played for Vitesse) he wouldn’t sign these players. He saw the importance of personality fits and all that stuff. If there’s one thing Feyenoord hasn’t learned in the last years, is exactly that. There are numerous examples of players who were bought on the basis of a video-montage!! Well, I am sure that I could even impress you guys with a video montage of Denny Landzaat

I wonder how many coaches do what Van Gaal and Adriaanse do…

Posted from  Australia

@Jan: That coach is Ranieri. But I think that he’s also a fan of defensive football. I guess Robben can show his best in attacking team like Barca, MU or Inter.
Maybe moving to Real is not a bad idea cuz Capello is a good coach.

Posted from  United States

Is Robben linked to Real? I heard rumors that Capello is leaving Madrid and will be replaced by Bernd Schuster? I remember Robben was courted by Man Utd too and that he decided to go to Chelsea at the last minute. Man Utd would be a perfect team for him. Anyway… We’ll see what happens, although I’d hate it if he’d move to Bayern Munich…

Posted from  Australia

Most importent thing: dont follow the money first!

Heared also things about Robben but saw him the other day on BBCs Football Focus and Robben said he couldnt wait for the next season to prove everbody at Chelsea that he can be an importent player for them again after this years lost season…maybe if he didnt feel he still had something to prove he would go someplace else but now.. i think Robben will stay..
Ruud has his period of not knowing how not to score.. its been some time but he is at his most lethal yet again…think we all know what vanbasten needs to do here (ok VoHesselink scored aswell for Celtic but lets stay real)
vdVaart scored another amasing free-kick, i remember all the critism when he left for HSV, he had a not so great season with Ajax so his options were a bit limited..HSV was a surprise but a really good choice.. its better to be a leader in a semi top club with potential then to go to Real and spent your time on the bench, if vdVaart chooses to go somewhre else now he a much more potent and grown up player (esp. since they struggled for not going down this season…it has made him a man

grzt

Posted from  Netherlands

Good points… It’s hard though, since the players’ managers have something to do with it too. They make money only if the player leaves a club or signs a new contract. So, it’s good to “bring” a player away but also good to have him leave that club after 1 season. The impact of a manager can be huge particularly if the player in question is not too smart. Btw, I read that Robben’s dad has struck a deal between Chelsea and FC Groningen to work together. Groningen could use Chelsea talents in their team to allow them to develop in Holland. The Robben-Chelsea relationship seems very solid. But remember Kluivert, Bogarde, Reiziger and Davids’ signings at AC Milan. AC Milan got them for free. They only wanted Kluivert really. The rest they bought only to re-sell them with a profit. They ate humble pie when Davids went on to become Juve’s motor on midfield, but AC Milan made a lot of money on those four naieve players, who never had a chance in Milan.

Posted from  Australia

@Jan; will wait till your post before commenting on todays results,… here a very nice link, you should really check it out my friend..
grtz

http://sportgeschiedenis.web-log.nl/

Posted from  Netherlands

Yea, Robben shouldn’t move to Bayern and he shouldn’t stay at Chelsea as well. The thing is that even if he play well at Chelsea, he won’t develop cuz the strategy there is built around Lampard, Drogba and he will have to sarifice his style to support for them. Look at Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, 2 years ago they are at the same level of Robben, but because they make good choice, now they’re top players.
Cappelo won’t leave Real cuz now they’re league leader thank to Barca’s bad form. So Robben can come there.
You remind me about Bogarde and Reizeiger. In EU1996, i saw them play really well. But then Milan took advantage of them and they never play well after that.
About Davids, if I remember, b4 going to Juve, he play the same position as VDV, but then Lippi transform him into a good defensive midfield. Is that right?

Posted from  United States

Robben would be a huge impact at Madrid.Robinho and Reyes are not as good as Robben, it is true what you guys say about Robben. 2 or 3 years ago he was better but I think he is no worse not better either.He just has not developed a lot at Chelsea but maily because injuries, he gest injured very often, perhaps English game does not suit him. He should leave Chelsea for good and it would be great to see him at Real Madrid with Ruud van Nistelrooy. Lets see what happens. About the guys who play in Holland I would like Sneijder, Huntelaar, Babel, Heitinga to go abroad to try their luck but choosing a good team, a top team where they can have a big chance to shine. If not they should stay at Holland to grow as players, and when the opportunity comes they will be ready to show their skills at the very top. Afellay, De Zeeuw, Schaars have the talent, but they need to be more mature to leave Holland, we will see what happens.

aiie… robben at real.. im pretty skeptical about that. i mean its not like robinho is gonna sit on the bench let alone raul and that ex-arsenal player that i cant recall his name at the moment. Real have already too many attacking options, for a big name like robben to fit it.

Barca is no good either, cuz already ronaldinho plays where robben plays best.

In my opinion, man utd is a very attractive place to go. giggs is slowly but surely heading towards retirement.
Bayern too, i dont find so bad. well there is already podolski i think playing on the attacking left, but im pretty sure robben will have plenty of starting matches regardless of that.

Valencia? Sevilla?
Juventus?

or just stay put at Chelsea, and hope joe cole gets another injury next season, and kalou doesnt develop to the better too quickly.

However, all in all, id like to see him move away from england. the premiership is becoming too much of a playground for soldies, not artists.

“the premiership is becoming too much of a playground for soldies, not artists.”

Love this quote, Rami

Posted from  Australia

Bogarde and Reiziger were great at Ajax. Why? Louis van Gaal’s management and the team tactics. They fit truly well in that team. Bogarde was, like Reiziger, a former striker (from Sparta Rotterdam). Without van Gaal, they never really performed well. On top of that Bogarde was a handful to manage. Very specific character.

Davids always played a somewhat restrained and defensive rol, but in Ajax, the whole team was able to attack and/or defend.

Posted from  Australia

Guys:

Some people say van Gaal was terrible during his period as National coach. Do you remember that during his spell as national coach Holland had too many injured players at the games at home vs Ireland and Portugal???I remember many players made their debuts for the national team at those games because of the injuries. Ok, it can be taken as an excuse but that was a fact. I still remember the crucial game vs Ireland in Dublin with Davids and de Boer suspended as we all remember. That has to be considered too! De Boer was captain and Davids vice captain, so, those things count too, at that time those two players were very important for the team. I think van Gaal had bad luck as manager of the national team and his failure was over exagerated because he was not the main responsible. The players have their part too, he had a lot of material during his spell at the national team but most of the important games he had too many injured players. At that time Dennis Bergkamp had just retired from the team and Ruud van Nistelrooy was injured for a whole year so Ruud just could play in the decisive game vs Ireland but missed both games vs Portugal and the one at Amsterdam vs the Irish.
I have to say from my humble opinion that those factors were very strong for his failure at Oranje but I really hope to see him have his revenge at the National Team. With the players Holland has right now he can make a better team than vas Basten´s team. I do not know if he will be the next coach of Holland once van Basten is gone (hope that happens very soon) but I would love him to manage Holland one more time and I am sure he will do a great job and have a lot of success. Perhaps when he was manager of Holland he had not experienced failure at the top level because at Ajax he became the best coach of the world for almost 2 o 3 years and at Barcelona he won titles too and when he went to Holland he perhaps was too arrogant but today he seems to be more mature than never, knows what failure is and has developed many players at AZ just like he did at Ajax.
The skills of Louis van Gaal are proven and some day I know he will be back at Oranje to guide us to the very best. =)

Hi Mario, I think Van Gaal really made mistake as a national coach. But you’re right that we should give him one more chance cuz he’s a brilliant coach and now he’s more mature

Posted from  United States

So that Jan wont be disappointed :),

the quote you speak of is taken from eurosport.com

It’s true that Louis had some bad luck maybe, but even without Davids and De Boer they should’ve beaten Ireland. And…they shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place. We were 2-0 up against Portugal in Portugal before he made those dreadful substitutions. But again, I am a fan of his work and he would definitely be more succesful with that bad experience behind him. Without a doubt!

Posted from  Australia

@Mario: not so sure my friend, it may be true that we suffered many injuries at the time (i had forgotten that to be fair) but we should never have been in the situation of having a playoff game with the Irish, like Jan said.
There is abso. no discussion on the fact that VanGaal is the greatest dutch club manager in many, many years (maybe all time) but to be a manager of a club and a manager of a national team are two very different things..think vanGaal is a great teacher (wich he is actually trained to do btw) who needs a group of young players to work with on a daily basis…not sure if vanGaal is the great people manager which i think you need to be to be a great manager of a national team..(right Marco??!!! haaha), im not sure if a type of manager like vanGaal can work with a group which he sees only a couple of times a year…

the Ire game was one of the great black Oranje moments in my life,
remember it was on the first of september 2001 and remember joking to a teacher at the time on the 11th: he asked the whole class if anyone one really concerned about what happened (9-11), i was the only one to raise my hand, he asked me Why are you so concerned? And i told him that missing a WC was no cup of tea..hahaha

i remember Hoek, the keeper trainer at the time having a celebration about 20 min. before the end..i new than that we would not win…we were to arrogant!!

Posted from  Netherlands