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Foppe: we didn’t have a Messi

August 17th, 2008 | By: Jan | 29 Comments »

Team manager Foppe de Haan admitted it. During the quarter finals yesterday between Holland and Argentina at times he really enjoyed Lionel Messi’s game. “Yeah, that’s a type of player we just don’t have,” he sighed.

Oranje lost 1-2 against Argentina in added extra time. De Haan was a bit sick of the late misses of Drenthe and Babel. “Those could have been our moments. We didn’t turn those into goals. Very sad, otherwise it was us in the semi finals next Tuesday.”

After three abysmal group games, Oranje at least played with their Lions’ hearts against Argentina. “We had trouble against equal or weaker opponents and played reasonable against this strong opponent. Argentina was just a tad smarter and better. But collectively, we worked hard. It took too long for us to gel as a team. Now, I can see the first signs but it’s too late. We’re going home.”

De Haan admitted that he expected to have a better relationship with his group. This squad was more diverse and harder to “reach”. In the former ECs I had a great rapport with players like Vlaar, Huntelaar, Schaars and Hofs. This time it was different. Some lads are less accessible. More to themselves. But that didn’t make the difference against Argentina.”

Ryan Babel, captain of the squad with Makaay injured, lamented the missed opportunities at the end of the 90 minutes. “With a bit of luck, we would have won. It’s sad, but we didn’t. I do feel we can say farewell with our chins up. The concentration and mentality were fine. The result let us down.”

Argentina started fierce and well-oiled but after ten minutes Urby Emanuelson missed a huge chance at 1-0. The Ajax player missed by inches. Argentina did score the first, after a howler in the Dutch defense, but thanks to alert refereeing, Otman Bakkal scored the equalizer. A Sno distance strike was deflected and although Bakkal seemed off side, the ball did get to him via a Argentine leg: 1-1.

Both teams played a more pedestrian second half, with again good chances for the stronger Argentina side, but it was Hollland with two huges chances at the end of the 90 minutes. In the extra time, it was Di Maria who scored the 2-1, leaving Holland only 8 minutes to score a second. But the energy was gone and Holland didn’t seem able to score anymore, even if the game would go on for another hour.

Argentina now faces Brazil in the semi finals.

Tags: Babel, Bakkal, De Haan, Drenthe, Group C, Holland, Messi, Olympic, Oranje, Riquelme, Sno

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Comments

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 29 comments.

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By finnster01 | August 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

How about KNVB spending some Euros on having Michael Phelps come in and give a motivational speach to the team before WC2010 qual starts?

Hopefully they would actually listen to a 23 year old young man who’s desire to compete and win is bigger than anything I have ever witnessed in my life time, never mind that he is probably the greatest Olympian of all time (already at 23….)

That’s the kind of stuff Oranje needs, not talent. It’s already there. Phelps is from Baltimore, and although he didn’t have as hard an upbringing as many kids do have there, he sure had his issues to deal with. Baltimore is no sweet spot, trust me, if you have ever been there you’ll know what I mean. Maybe growing up in Holland is too “nice”, if you don’t make it so what? You’ll be well looked after anyway. The “edge” and “hunger” is clearly missing.

Posted from United States

By Bob | August 17th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

Talk about attitude–I just finished watching a replay of the Belgium-Italy match. Belgium was terrific, with hustle, perserverance, great physical conditioning and a willingness to “take on” the Italian attitude that is a constant part of Italian football nonsense. The Belgians had excellent defenders and very talented midfielders. It will now be interesting to see how they play against Nigeria.

Posted from United States

By Michel-Olivier | August 17th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

@ finnster01
Michael Phelps is not human, his a fish in a man’s body
he consume 12000 calories a day, that’s not human

Posted from United States

By Jan | August 18th, 2008 at 1:00 am

Apparently, his arms are ten cm longer than they’re supposed to be in relation to his height. That helps him with the close finishes and in general with swimming. I think we need to find blokes with big feet!

By Carlos | August 18th, 2008 at 4:14 am

Agree Belgium were terrfic and tenacious with 10 men could do more then we could have with 12.
Quite a few play in the Dutch league too.
Well done Belgium - Credit where credit is due.Lets hope your team starts becoming great again like in the 80s.

Posted from Singapore

By dutch expat | August 18th, 2008 at 6:33 am

@Bob, excellent remarks, it needs to be said: There is a cultural problem developing within the Dutch ranks. And total football is something that must be taught. Are these players teachable? Also I hate that these guys who are not “native” Dutch, literally every single one, refuse to sing their own nations national anthem. Disgraceful, and speaks to some of the issues that will prevent a group from playing together on the field.

Posted from United States

By goose | August 18th, 2008 at 10:19 am

@dutch expat; discussion about not singing the national anthem is growing in Holland….guess it has to do with the thing that happened after Oranje won the EC and all of these surinam guys (all born in Holland btw) started to wave around with the surinam flag….people were very pissed off about that..

i dont care if players are ‘native’dutch or not, dont care what their religion is etc. BUT i only want players playing for Holland who feel dutch, are proud of Holland and are willing to give it all for Holland…not guys who feel Surinam or turkish and play for Holland only cause it gives them the best international platform for their OWN careers

carlos; would love to see a stronger Belgium in the future…its been a while since they were a worthy opponent for us dutch…btw that striker they have, Mirallas, is one of the worst players i have seen in my life
but; GO BELGICA!!

Posted from Netherlands

By Michel-Olivier | August 18th, 2008 at 10:34 am

@ goose
maybe they don’t like the national anthem. i myself don’t like the dutch, french, italian, english and american anthems.

Posted from United States

By goose | August 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

@Michel; dont think so my friend (btw; think het Wilhelmus is the 2nd most beautiful anthem ever, only topped by the russian one), im afraid it runs a little deeper than that

Posted from Netherlands

By Bruno | August 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

ok, then please give us De Guzman back!

/ polite Canadian request

By goose | August 18th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

@Bruno; you can have him mate! .. got plenty of that kind of quality here in Holland…but maybe deGuzman feels like a real dutchie, maybe he doenst feel canadian anymore!

Posted from Netherlands

By Michel-Olivier | August 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

@ goose
best anthems
1 brazil
2 russia
3 israel

Posted from United States

By Jan | August 18th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

I have to say: I like the German (sorry all) and the American anthem…

By Michel-Olivier | August 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

@ jan
American anthem
I HATE IT, i never and never will sing this trash

Posted from United States

By Prabal Rakshit | August 18th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

Goose, I agree with you. Like it or not, when you are wearing national colours, you should respect the national anthem. Not singing the anthem is gross disrespect to the country that has provided you a platform to play your beloved game, in the international arena.
BTW, a question on the Dutch anthem. It talks about William of Nassau, right? Given the fact that he was after all a German born monarch, did it ever create a national consternation or sorts, after the German occupation in WW II?

By finnster01 | August 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

@Prabal, you may want to check with Goose, but I believe there was a bit of a bicycle issue at the time. As I don’t speak any Dutch, not sure if the natinal anthem adress the issue, but given what I know and have experienced of the country, I would not be surprised if it did.

Posted from United States

By goose | August 19th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

@Prabal; no, not really; i guess we dutch always knew we were semi-germans
our whole monarchie is german, queen Beatrix married a german, here mother married a german…. the only problem we had was when Beatrix married Claus ( a german) that was not so long after the war and it was a bit tense (raus mit Claus)
Willem van Oranje was a german (with properties in France) but is seen as ‘vader des vaderlands’( father of the fatherland), the first real dutchie

the lyrics in our anthem are great; ill try and translate some of it;
dutch:

Wilhelmus van Nassouwe
ben ik, van Duitsen bloed,
den vaderland getrouwe
blijf ik tot in den dood.
Een Prinse van Oranje
ben ik, vrij onverveerd,
den Koning van Hispanje
heb ik altijd geëerd.

translation;

Wilhelmus van Nassouwe
am i of german blood *
ill be faithful to my fatherland
until i die
a prince of Orange
i am free and without fear
the king of Spain *1
i have always honoured

*(in old dutch thats ‘dietsen bloed’and doest stand for germans only but was a wider range of people living in that part of Europe

*1 Holland was ofcourse part of the spanish kingdom till ‘de Opstand’(the Revolt) in the 16th C)

but all in all i can say that germans are not hated in Holland like in older days…most of us think they are polite and decent (but without a sense of humor)

nice one to say to a german friend:
ask him; “Sorry my friend but you lost something”
the german answers; ” ah thanks, what did i lose??”
you answer: the second world war!!

hahahaha

Posted from Netherlands

By Prabal Rakshit | August 19th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

Nice one, Goose. Thanks for the lucid explanation.

Posted from United States

By finnster01 | August 19th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

@Goose;

that was a very informative piece. Nice and proud lyrics, just like a proper national anthem should have.

Who is the best singers in the Dutch team? I am a big believer in players weraing their national shirt should show respect and dignity for their country and belt out the anthem.

Anyone notice anyone not singing? RVN always seemed to do it with some effort, EVDS also. But a lot of the others never seemed to care too much. I don’t think that is very respectful.

Posted from United States

By finnster01 | August 19th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

I should add Kuyt too. He seemed to sing loud too at the EC. (Although he may have thought his daugther a few songs she could have been better off not knowing

Posted from United States

By s | August 20th, 2008 at 3:18 am

Marco Van Basten sang it too during the EC

By goose | August 20th, 2008 at 8:16 am

Best singers during WC/EC; vNistelrooy, Kuyt, vdSar and vBasten
i remember Engelaar NOT singing

singing the anthem was almost not-done during the 70s, 80s (youll never see a player sing in the WC74 for instance) during the late 90s* this view changed… singing the anthem has had a big revival here in Holland and NOT singing is now seen as a kind of insult

* with the arrival of multi-culturalism wich saw a new interest in the dutch identity (is still going on today)

Posted from Netherlands

By Michel-Olivier | August 20th, 2008 at 9:49 am

they should change “am i of german blood” to “am i of dutch/frisian/orange/germanic blood”

Posted from United States

By --HedonistiX | August 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am

There seems to be a positive correlation between “singing national anthem” and “playing hard for the country”. Most obvious example: Kuyt for us, Gattuso in the Italian team and 99% of German players.

I also believe if one is deemed worthy enough to represent their country (esp. a powerhouse like the Oranje), they should be very proud and sing the national anthem with enthusiasm. This is not a matter of being jingoistic but showing the respect to the people they are representing and their supporters. Shouldn’t matter whether they are “natives” or “non-natives”. Head coaches should probably start instilling this.

Also wrote on this forum during the EC about how Netherlands’ high living standards might have contributed to the lack of fighting spirits.

Posted from United States

By Caleb | August 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm

It’s odd, I just finished watching the game, and during the anthems I was thinking the same thing as many of you have brought up, and then I come here to the blog and see this discussion about it. Great minds think alike??

I really liked the way goose put it:
“i dont care if players are ‘native’ dutch or not, dont care what their religion is etc. BUT i only want players playing for Holland who feel dutch, are proud of Holland and are willing to give it all for Holland…not guys who feel Surinam or turkish and play for Holland only cause it gives them the best international platform for their OWN careers”

Lately I’ve been becoming more aware about increasing cultural crises, especially in Europe, when immigrants come to a new country but make absolutely no effort to integrate/learn the culture/learn the language. I think this discussion about singing the anthem is related to that topic.

Posted from Canada