Comments on: Dutch football: a bland flavour…

By: tjeerd

tjeerd — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:10:46 +0000

Great points on de Guzman. It is true that disappointment reins supreme with de Guzmans decision. I just watched Craig Forrests commentary on the “the score” channel. He seemed to be understanding of his decision, seeing it as the best move for his own carrer.
Re. the Hockey analogy is true, we got tons of foreign players coming in at the junior level (15-17 years old) and in the NHL, all playing for their own country.
The Owen Nolen analogy is a little different, I believe Owen came to Canada as a young child. He never started playing Hockey in Ireland.

Having said all that, I still wish he choose Canada.

By: peter

peter — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:37:16 +0000

With regards to your reference of Canadian hockey players playing for national teams in Europe because of parental lineage. Fair point, however the big difference is that those players have no chance of playing in the NHL let alone even dream of wearing Canada’s National Team Jersey.

Jonathan was going to be a starting player for Canada. If he feels more allegiance to Holland then I hope he “rides the pine” there. I will never forgive or forget his decision.

I’m 97% sure I’m going to kick his ass when I see him.

ps again fair point on Nolan but I don’t believe it to be the same for various reasons.

By: Jan

Jan — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:57:18 +0000

Agree with Goose. The fans really wanted Kalou in Oranje, with De Guzman it’s different. I do feel for players like Ryan Giggs and Jari Litmanen who are/were worldclass but never could shine on the international level. So, I can emphasize with De G.’s decision, but I can surely emphasize with the Canadian fans as well…

Goose: I tried to get that Auke Kok book on the 1974 squad, but couldn’t find it. I’ll order it through Bol.com. Thanks for the tip!

By: goose

goose — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:59:45 +0000

dont think we in Holland pushed deGuzman in an orange shirt .. ill say it again; deGuzman is seen as a decent talent but not as some special talent, not as a possible regular for Oranje (at least not at this moment in time) ,

btw; deGuzman really needs to adress his skin-issues!! haha

By: Igor

Igor — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:41:50 +0000

to comment on the most valuable oranje player since the WC, its a tough call…on paper sneijder looks better but there were times when he almost hindered the team by wanting and keeping the ball too much and realizing that not every play has to go through him especially if he is having a poor game. that being said, van der vaart sometimes “dissappears” from the match and is a non-factor, although he is often played out of position. the main point here is that if the best player has been either sneijder or vdv, then is there room in the starting XI for seedorf? perhaps our best line-up is just like against the croats but substituting ruud for Hunter and v persie for babel (vdv and v persie can switch back and forth between the left side and the central position)

By: Igor

Igor — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:33:09 +0000

Peter, interesting that you should bring hockey into this because like you said many foreigners come to canada to play in the nhl (or juniors even) and yet they do not turn their back on their country (for whatever reason). however the situation is not as clear cut as it seems, for one many canadian born and trained hockey players play in the national team of other countries, France and Italy for example and also Paul Dipietro who plays for Switzerland. These players are usually naturalized citizens, some claim citizenship through a grand parent (eg. kolzig playing for germany) but that is not usually the case. furthermore, owen nolan has won an olympic gold medal playing for canada even though he was born in Ireland. so i dont think that hockey is that different from soccer, this kind of thing happens once in a while… i agree that poaching players from other countries is ridiculous, but is it poaching if the player himself feels more of an allegiance to his adopted country?

By: peter

peter — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:06:44 +0000

Robert,

If I am not mistaken the Dutch federation offered Jonathan a place in their U21 team within 5.7 – 8.9 seconds after he obtained citizenship—I call that poaching. Why would the Dutch with all the talent they produce want him? Without question Holland did take a talent and help shape and mould it, but what does that have to do with his betrayal of Canada? Obviously Europe is the first choice for players around the world to go and play top level football.

We have thousands of hockey players from around the globe who come to Canada to learn and advance their skill —-but they do not turn their back on their country. Nor do I remember Canada offering citizenship – poaching players.

There are a great number of Dutch players playing in Spain, Italy and England. Many of them were turned into great talents playing in these leagues and under the various countries junior clubs. Would you be ok with them changing citenzenship?

I am really leaning towards kicking Jonathan’s ass when I see him.

By: Kyle

Kyle — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:53:51 +0000

@ Jan

Yes that made it’s way to Canadian soccer fans heart… they right now want De Guzman on a stake, or something of that sort. Clearly there are alot of angry Canadian Soccer fans around, and there are more than anyone suspects, you wouldn’t know it with the way CSA runs things.

Ah well good luck De Guzman, you have torn my heart, at least with Hargraves I was able to hate England even more.

By: goose

goose — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 09:59:59 +0000

@jan; welcome ‘home’.. youve missed the best match in ages .. hopeful.. progress!

KNVB has told press that they informed with vMarwijk if they could approach him.. looks like hes the nr1 candidate

By: Jan

Jan — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:48:28 +0000

I’m back home my friends. I missed the Oranje Croatia game but what I’ve read and heard is on par with all your remarks.

Thanks for the Bryan Robson mind-refresher (forgot by whom)…

De Guzman said in an interview that he feels Dutch now. He lives in Holland for quite some time and would be honoured to play for Oranje if he is ever selected.