Dutch football: a bland flavour…

I was doing some counting today, because me and my friend were arguing about something. I found out that out of the 29 goals we’ve scored since the World Cup ended, 10 of them have come from right-wingers, 10 from centre strikers. 4 of them came while van persie was right-wing at the beginning of Euro 2008 qualifying, and the rest were all van der Vaart.

And now I raise the question. Since the World Cup ended, who has been the most valuable player on the Dutch National Team. Sneijder with 3 goals, and 8 assists? van der Vaart with his 6 goals and 1 assist, and leadership skills. van Persie also started off well with 5 goals and 2 assists in 5 games. Maybe Huntelaar with his hat-trick debut(although one wasn’t counted), plus another 2 goals, and three assists. Or maybe van der Sar with only two goals in nine games.

Posted from  Canada

A little of topic here but on these boards there has been discussion on whether Jonathan de Guzman will play for Canada or Holland. Well the choice has been made and it will be Holland. There is an interview with Foppe de Haan in which he discloses that de Guzman will be in the selection for the Olympic team in a friendly against Estland.

As a Dutchman living in Canada I don’t know if this should make me happy or sad but I can’t say I disagree with his decision. There is lots of talent here in Canada but as far as the national team goes nothing seems to be moving in any direction that would suggest things are going to be better anytime soon.

I personally think Sneijder has been the best.

I was watching the highlights from the game, and during one Croatia free-kick, the entire Dutch team lined up on the goal line, to protect the net. Is that normal?

Posted from  Canada

If Jonathan de Guzman plays for Holland than I wish him nothing but bad karma. That is disgraceful and he should be ashamed of himself.

Enough is enough, with other countries poaching Canadian players! Then we wonder why Canada’s NT sucks.

I’m might even kick his ass if I see him.

@peter; i understand your anger .. its his choice tough, nobody in Holland is waiting for deGuzman…dont think hell ever be a regular in the Holland line-up (but hes a more than decent player)

@miquel’next game; Austria – Holland, 26th of march

@dirk; i reckon its Sneijder cause he played more games than vPersie and i think hes just a little better then vdVaart at this moment … about all the players in goal; if the freekick is an indirect one inside the box theres little else you can do

Posted from  Netherlands

I just finished watching the Egypt-Ivory Coast game, and I’ve now realized, that I hate Egypt. Everytime the ball died, one of the Egyptians were on the ground with some sort of injury. Whenever an Ivorian got injured they got injured too. And there captain was the worst, down five times in the game, and wasted a couple of minutes.

Posted from  Canada

Hmm… is de Guzman eligible to represent Canada if he has only played for our Olympic side?

Posted from  Singapore

If the question is most valuable player given the stats Dirk provided, it is hard not to argue Van der Sar. Although he is a very nice guy and never makes too much noise, 2 goals in 9 games is pretty impressive. And given the Dutch game of propensive use of flair and attacking football, if you only let in 2 goals every 9 games, you will not only win most games but also win big a$$ tournaments.

Posted from  United States

@peter -Interesting way of looking at it. Except of course that Holland did not “poach” Jonathan; They educated him and turned him into the soccer player he is today. Opportunity like that can not be found in Canada and is the core reason why a country like Holland will have better National teams than Canada. If he would have stayed in Canada we would not even have been talking about him on this board…
There is a lot of soccer being played here and there is lots of talent around.
I hope one day that situation will improve but for now there is no system in Canada for true talent to thrive in. You may thank the CSA for that. Just my opinion…

@ Genio

He will still be eligible to play for Canada if I remember correctly, as Olympic teams are considered amateur sports still. But I’m not sure how exhibition games are used so he may have finally selected Holland, which in the end I’m not surprised, even if I wished he would have played for Canada instead.

Posted from  Canada

de Guzman should join his brother and play for Canada.

hi-lites of the Oranje Croatia game

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7188443873979239233&q=holland+croatia&total=329&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=searc

Links to watch the full game on the web. Croatian commentary though.

First half:
http://www.stage6.com/user/makris/video/2201714/Croatia—Holland;-Split-6-2-2008;-1st-Half

Second half:
http://www.stage6.com/user/makris/video/2201527/Croatia—Holland;-Split-6-2-2008;-2nd-Half

Posted from  Japan

Re – de Guzman.

Messy. Very messy.

Was he “poached”? I don’t know.

Can a player be “poached” when his original country cannot offer the same opportunities as his adopted country? Yes.

The prime example is the Salomon Kalou fiasco before Germany 06. If that had come off it would have been a “poach” because of the attempt to fast-track Dutch citizenship, as well as the complicity of Marco van Basten and the KNVB. Thankfully it didn’t come off as it would have devalued Dutch football much more than a declining domestic competition.

I also thought after the Kalou fiasco we had avoided the absurd situation of brother v brother in international football. Didn’t last long though.

Posted from  Australia

I liked the formation with a 4-2-3-1….

If we line up Ruud, van Persie and Seedorf to this line up we can make a big impact. van Basten is trying new stuff and this victory will be a good psycological boost for the team. Hup Holland!

I’m back home my friends. I missed the Oranje Croatia game but what I’ve read and heard is on par with all your remarks.

Thanks for the Bryan Robson mind-refresher (forgot by whom)…

De Guzman said in an interview that he feels Dutch now. He lives in Holland for quite some time and would be honoured to play for Oranje if he is ever selected.

Posted from  Australia

@jan; welcome ‘home’.. youve missed the best match in ages .. hopeful.. progress!

KNVB has told press that they informed with vMarwijk if they could approach him.. looks like hes the nr1 candidate

Posted from  Netherlands

@ Jan

Yes that made it’s way to Canadian soccer fans heart… they right now want De Guzman on a stake, or something of that sort. Clearly there are alot of angry Canadian Soccer fans around, and there are more than anyone suspects, you wouldn’t know it with the way CSA runs things.

Ah well good luck De Guzman, you have torn my heart, at least with Hargraves I was able to hate England even more.

Posted from  Canada

Robert,

If I am not mistaken the Dutch federation offered Jonathan a place in their U21 team within 5.7 – 8.9 seconds after he obtained citizenship—I call that poaching. Why would the Dutch with all the talent they produce want him? Without question Holland did take a talent and help shape and mould it, but what does that have to do with his betrayal of Canada? Obviously Europe is the first choice for players around the world to go and play top level football.

We have thousands of hockey players from around the globe who come to Canada to learn and advance their skill —-but they do not turn their back on their country. Nor do I remember Canada offering citizenship – poaching players.

There are a great number of Dutch players playing in Spain, Italy and England. Many of them were turned into great talents playing in these leagues and under the various countries junior clubs. Would you be ok with them changing citenzenship?

I am really leaning towards kicking Jonathan’s ass when I see him.

Peter, interesting that you should bring hockey into this because like you said many foreigners come to canada to play in the nhl (or juniors even) and yet they do not turn their back on their country (for whatever reason). however the situation is not as clear cut as it seems, for one many canadian born and trained hockey players play in the national team of other countries, France and Italy for example and also Paul Dipietro who plays for Switzerland. These players are usually naturalized citizens, some claim citizenship through a grand parent (eg. kolzig playing for germany) but that is not usually the case. furthermore, owen nolan has won an olympic gold medal playing for canada even though he was born in Ireland. so i dont think that hockey is that different from soccer, this kind of thing happens once in a while… i agree that poaching players from other countries is ridiculous, but is it poaching if the player himself feels more of an allegiance to his adopted country?

Posted from  Canada

to comment on the most valuable oranje player since the WC, its a tough call…on paper sneijder looks better but there were times when he almost hindered the team by wanting and keeping the ball too much and realizing that not every play has to go through him especially if he is having a poor game. that being said, van der vaart sometimes “dissappears” from the match and is a non-factor, although he is often played out of position. the main point here is that if the best player has been either sneijder or vdv, then is there room in the starting XI for seedorf? perhaps our best line-up is just like against the croats but substituting ruud for Hunter and v persie for babel (vdv and v persie can switch back and forth between the left side and the central position)

Posted from  Canada

dont think we in Holland pushed deGuzman in an orange shirt .. ill say it again; deGuzman is seen as a decent talent but not as some special talent, not as a possible regular for Oranje (at least not at this moment in time) ,

btw; deGuzman really needs to adress his skin-issues!! haha

Posted from  Netherlands

Agree with Goose. The fans really wanted Kalou in Oranje, with De Guzman it’s different. I do feel for players like Ryan Giggs and Jari Litmanen who are/were worldclass but never could shine on the international level. So, I can emphasize with De G.’s decision, but I can surely emphasize with the Canadian fans as well…

Goose: I tried to get that Auke Kok book on the 1974 squad, but couldn’t find it. I’ll order it through Bol.com. Thanks for the tip!

Posted from  Australia

With regards to your reference of Canadian hockey players playing for national teams in Europe because of parental lineage. Fair point, however the big difference is that those players have no chance of playing in the NHL let alone even dream of wearing Canada’s National Team Jersey.

Jonathan was going to be a starting player for Canada. If he feels more allegiance to Holland then I hope he “rides the pine” there. I will never forgive or forget his decision.

I’m 97% sure I’m going to kick his ass when I see him.

ps again fair point on Nolan but I don’t believe it to be the same for various reasons.

Great points on de Guzman. It is true that disappointment reins supreme with de Guzmans decision. I just watched Craig Forrests commentary on the “the score” channel. He seemed to be understanding of his decision, seeing it as the best move for his own carrer.
Re. the Hockey analogy is true, we got tons of foreign players coming in at the junior level (15-17 years old) and in the NHL, all playing for their own country.
The Owen Nolen analogy is a little different, I believe Owen came to Canada as a young child. He never started playing Hockey in Ireland.

Having said all that, I still wish he choose Canada.