Dutch Expectations

Which De Zeeuw is it that you want in the defense?

Typically Jan, a real nice piece sir!! It is true that against physically defensive teams you cannot play flowering colorful football a la arsenal. Also marco does not the team that Hiddink had in WC98 or Rijkaard in EC00. But what has been a depressingly familiar pattern is the relative stagnation. The quality and standard of the game has remained at almost the same level since WC06. The same problems eg in crossing the ball to ruud, build-up from the back etc. still exist.
Results do matter….Marco does deserve credit for putting us through at least till so far. But if Ruud was not able to score that stunner against Albania, if Melchiot’s own goal was deemed legal, the Dutch would have lost and qualification to EC08 would have come under tremendous strain.
I mean it is just so easy for your qualification off the track. Van Gaal had a couple of forgettable games with probably a better team than this and we never played WC02. Touchwood such a thing has not happened so far. I sincerely wish I am proved a stupid doubting Thomas as the Dutch shine in the resplendent glory of the Oraanje!!

BTW Goose, you wanted to burn down KNVB if Ten Cate was appointed bondscoach…..well have you thought something similar for Marco?… Just kidding…..:-))))

Posted from  United States

Dear jan its my request to u and van basten.
dont omit castelen and hantlaar they will make the difference for our team
fix our front six according to 4-3-3
roban=(sub)babel
nestel=(sub)hantlaar
Vanpersie=(sub)castelen
at present my neds team
according to 4-3-3
Roban=left
nestel=cetral f
vanpersie=(rigt or shadow sriker depending on castelens posistion)
castelen=left attacking mid
vart right attacking mid
Hedwings=holding mid
donk =left full back
Mathjenson=sweeper back
ooiger=stopper back
heitinga=right full back
Van der sar

As a dutchman i agree with most of Jans analyse

its always difficult to see cause you dont really know other countries football cultures but its true that we dutch have a need to see attacking, offensive football
maybe we are the one nation who rather see a brilliant game from our boys and loose than have them play a crap game and win…something the italians and germans would not understand

a nice example was ‘the Robben’incident in 04…what we dutch hated so much was that it was a defensive move..that we never be accepted

think the benchmark is the WC74 team and always will be (until we win our first WC)

the thing with these qualification results is that when you play crap, get the points but theres no progress theres not really a point in qualifying cause youre never gonna win the tournament anyway!

we just want to see a proper game…just fight, show some heart, take changes and see where it all ends…i need to be proud!!

@Tomas; i see that the names are getting closer my friend!

@prabal; could never do that to vanBasten…just cause al the joy he has given me in the past

heres one of the reasons vanBastens house is still standing!! haha

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2nEZAb_Mk

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

dear goose
tat is becoz of my typing speed

dear goose if u r sending me ur email or address i will send u my opinions on neds and our future

gooose how is my team

you mean the last list? let me see you have (and ill translate, haha)

vdSar

Heitinga- Ooijer- Mathijssen -Donk

Maduro

vdVaart Castelen

vPersie Robben

vNiselrooy

is that about right?

think you need a stronger midfield. Surprised you put in Donk as left back…think hes a future guy for the central defensive position, not sure about Heitinga as a right central defender, he can play there but think hes more of a central player too.
Maduro has really lost it lately, is benched at Ajax now

Castelen is a good player (he scored the winner for HSV) but think you need some ’strong guys around him to keep the balance..wouldnt he work better on the right wing positon?? seem to remember we have an opening on that position!

so, i think you need to strenghten the midfield…its our problem area anyway… would love to see vBommel back!

grtz thomas

Posted from  Netherlands

Have you gentlemen read David Winner’s book, “Brilliant Orange”, subtitled “The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football”? It is one of the best books, period, that I have ever read and easily the best book on sports and on football. I think that the book explains, in part, the theme of Jan’s blog regarding “Dutch Expectations”. For a small nation which competes very well in the “big leagues” of international football, the Dutch believe, correctly in my opinion, that they were the most talented team in both the ‘74 and ‘78 world cup. We all know that they lost both of those matches, and we all know (I think!) that they were the best team at both of those championships. Thus began the high expectations for Dutch football, which as David Winners explains, are very difficult to achieve.

Winners believes that the Dutch have failed to win the major championships (except EC ‘88)because they believe that “beautiful football” is more important than winning, that they do not have a strong enough competitive attitude, that the Dutch cultural traditions of debate and argument are not conducive to a disciplined team, and that the footballers often believe they are better than they really are. Winners interviews most of the big names in Dutch football recent history, and I commend his book to your attention if you haven’t yet read it.

We, who are or love the Dutch, want them to be as great as Brazil, Italy, France, England, Germany and Argentina, teams from countries with vast greater populations and therefore a greater talent pool from which to select. Holland does compete well with these “big boys”, but has not proven able to win matches when the winning was important. In ‘98, I believe the Dutch team to have been equal to that of Brazil, only yet again to lose on penalty kicks. If Holland had won that match, I believe they would have beaten France in the final. Another example, however, of Holland being the best team and not winning the tournament.

We all know that there is real talent in the Netherlands. We know that the talent has not achieved its potential in major tournaments. Now we blame van Basten for not making this current team what it is not–a very gifted team. This attitude is based, in part, on the frustration of past losses, when the Dutch were the best and lost because they failed to play as best they were capable.

I think we should enjoy watching how far this team can go, but with no expectations. For a small country, they are a great team. For an international team, they remain in a second tier, behind the big boys with the big populations and the big talent pools with good to great coaching and dedicated professional players. In the world of football, David tries hard but often fails to beat Goliath. It is , however, fun to watch and, after all, that is the purpose of sport for us spectators–entertainment and fun.

Posted from  United States

Nice post Bob. I have read Winners book and it is excellent. In american sports, the attitude is “just win baby”. It doesn’t matter how, “just do it”. For me if Holland kept winning ugly to eventually win EC08, it wouldn’t matter in the end, as long a they won. I would be perfectly happy. However our Dutch friends may have a different opinion. Oranje has been so good and attractive in the past, that it is hard to imagine any other way. Winning, playing dominant attractive football is the ideal, but winning ugly with the prize in hand isn’t so bad either, is it?

Foppe de Haan’s U-21 squad is a case in point. Not the most dominant, attractive display in the Dutch tradition, but 2 championships in a row. Thats good stuff.

Posted from  United States

Thanks, Stephen, and your response is absolutely correct. I very much enjoyed the U21 tournament, and I think that deHaan is currently the most talented coach in Holland.

Posted from  United States

Tiju:

Castelen is ok with not a great player, you are exagerating!

Thanks all for your reactions… Tiju, I am not going to react on your line ups all the time, ok . But I am honoured with the “dear Jan, my request to you and Marco”… You make me feel as if Marco and myself are both in charge of Oranje… I do realize where you’re line ups come from, you are a big fan of attacking football and so am I, but we can toss in names all the time…it’s a “perpetuem puzzle”

Bob, I read winners book, it is a classic! very entertaining and insightful and damn smart too. He is right, in my view.

I don’t like writing long comments here in this crummy little window, so I’ll react in a post, ok?

Posted from  Australia

tju: who’s the hell is hedvink???????

Posted from  Hungary

Ferenc, that would be Hedwiges Maduro, the Ajax midfielder.
I think.

Lerkot, are you thinking of Arjen de Zeeuw . Very good…

Well…there is of course Kevin Hofland. Back from the boondocks, playing at Feyenoord. Let him get some rhythm and who knows…

But yes, Demy de Zeeuw… He only lacks length… So, the team manager will need to have to compensate for that by putting Ooijer next to him, or something. But De Zeeuw is dynamic, lively, tough as nails, has great vision, great feet, focused… Let him do it! And let Sneijder play in a more controlled way like he plays at Real and let Seedorf cover the right. Vaart can be the most attacking player, but with the current standings, I guess one of the quartet Seedorf, Vaart, Sneijder, Robben will always be either injured or suspended so then you can let Seedorf or Sneijder do the fancy work.

I don’t know…

Posted from  Australia

Nice video goose.
Jan,
Good article, my take on Oranje’s last two games

A win is a win is a win.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!!
Must see Quote by former Jets coach
Herm Edwards

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

Dear jan
Wat wrong i did
castelen is a good dribbler ,VP,Roban too tat means OUR predator RVN will get enough space (hope he will be free)
so 100 % we can win against any team in the world (espsecially in crucial games)
actually i want (my first choice)edgar as holding mid ,dek saaw ,Zno,bommel are considerable.
why i put donk in the left we need a strong man with speed and skill(to stop christiano,ronaldinho,ribery etc kind of players.)
i dont think emmanuelson and van bronk can catch any of them above mentioned)