Dennis Bergkamp still scores beauties…

Opps , i meant have dropped

Don’t know about Bergkamp’s legendary status (see, we can still disagree about anything, lol). Of course he was one of the greats, but I think he’s at the bottem of that list (not looking at players before Cruijf and I have no idea who our best strikers were between the Cruijf and vBasten period).

He’s still ahead of the occasional striker that showed up for Holland, just some guys I can think of and their ratings for me:

1. Cruijf
2. vBasten
3. Gullit
4. Kluivert
5. v Nistelrooij
6. Bergkamp
7. v Hooijdonk
8. Makaay

I’m leaving out wingers and such, as well as our current players, I’m counting RvN as a player of the past (perhaps too premature?).

Posted from  Netherlands

I would rate Bergkamp way above Kluivert. Half of Kluivert’s goals were due to Bergkamp. Kluivert had a couple of wonderful years, Bergkamp had an impressive and legendary career.

Posted from  Netherlands

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a4wfbc.jpg
lol, this is fatty Johan Derksen, way back.

Posted from  Netherlands

I haven’t seen Bergkamp at the clublevel (once he left Holland). So my view of him is somewhat limited and since Bergkamp was known to perform better at clublevel than for Oranje, I can understand that you rate him higher career wise than Kluivert.

However, my list is based on Oranje performance. I didn’t watch much clubfootball after Ajax won the championsleague twice in a row and Dutch footballclubs went on the decline, wow, that’s already more than 10 years ago. Now that it’s convenient that you can watch clubfootball online I watch our Oranje players abroad but I still don’t watch Dutch eredivisie since it’s about as exciting as the Belgian league.

I wish we had just one more team with a shot at the Champions league but that’s not gonna happen.

Posted from  Netherlands

correction, Ajax won the champions league and then the World Cup or whatever it was called back then in 1994-1995.

Posted from  Netherlands

We only won CL in 95. In 96 we lost in the finals.

Posted from  Netherlands

Oh great, I remember that karatekick by van Gaal, lol. Look at this video, now that was a team (de Boer, Kluivert, Overmars)! Very similar to the later Oranje team of 2000 that was so awesome (in success and failure):

http://www.europeancuphistory.com/euro95.html

Posted from  Netherlands

@Mohammed – we have a game against Ghana? When is that? By the way, Ghana isn’t that strong. At least in the game against Japan they just played this week, they were completely overrun for most of the game, and were very lucky to score the three goals they did. Fortunately, for justice sake, Japan scored four goals to win the game (deservedly). After seeing that game, I have a pretty low opinion of Ghana…

Boulahrouz said he’ll be going for a regular spot at Stuttgart first and then in oranje. Looks like competition for Ooijer’s spot is stacking up.

Posted from  Netherlands

@Caleb: Friendlies are just that. But don’t underestimate Ghana. Already qualified for WC. WC is in Africa. I like the idea of playing an African team as you there will be some African teams going deep in the tournament.

As far as Ghana’s quality goes, I didn’t see the Japan game, but any team with Essien and Muntari in it is not to be ignored.

Where is the match to be played? Travel would be an issue.

Great video and memories, thanks Sol. That was such a super team. Were it not for the stupid Bosman rule, we would have won 3 or 4 in a row…a true dynasty.
finnster, the fact Japan beat Ghana 4-3 is rather encouraging even if Ghana did not play well. I remember that without playing well (??) we just beat Japan 3-0. That is a good sign.

Posted from  United States

@mohammed, what does it mean? He will never play for Madrid this season? AFAIK, he is registered by Madrid for CL. So, at least he will play in CL.

Posted from  Canada

Thanks for the clip, good to see Dennis is still enjoying the game, I miss his magic at Arsenal.

With no intention of offending I offer this… Dennis could be percieved as struggling with Oranje and excelling at club level because he was one of the greastest team players that happened to play at the striker position. His genius was in unlocking a defense not only through mecurial moments of personal skill but with a mind for team play. The latter only works with a team that is in sync. Something that Oranje often falters with.

In a moment of over enthusiasm I’d be inclined to suggest that it was Bergkamp that opened Wengers eyes to the possibilities of the game.

I don’t think Bergkamp should be compared to Kluivert, Van Basten and Van Nistelrooy.

Dennis played in a diferent role. He’s more in the same vein as Cruyff, Van Hanegem, Van der Vaart. Half playmaker, half goal scorer.

To me, Gullit belongs in that list as well.

Strikers:
Van Basten
Kieft
Van Hooijdonk
Van Kooten
Houtman
Van Nistelrooy
Huntelaar
(not in order of “Best Of”)

Shadowstrikers/playmakers:
Cruyff
Van der Vaart
Bergkamp
Van Persie
Gullit

Totally agree with Jan. Different kind of player but brilliant and in my mind one of the most underrated player in football’s history..

Posted from  United States

I can’t understand how anyone can say he was a club player!!!.

He gave the Dutch national team many great displays. I am 23 years old so I could not watch the generation of Cruyff (70’s) or the generation of Van Basten but from the videos I have seen in Dutch history it’s:

1) Cruyff
2) Van Basten
3) Bergkamp

If we had won the 1998 WC everyone would have hailed Dennis instead of Zidane.

Today I finally watched the game against Scotland and I was very pissed by the comments they made about the Dutch. They said we only play beautiful but we always lose at the end. The same commentators said the exact same thing about Spain but when they won the last EC they started to worship them so we really need a title to shut some ignorant mouths.

A great clip of Dennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drScL8q956o

Thank-you Jan and Miguel

Dennis Bergkamp, my all time favourite.

Well, if you can’t compare him to strikers like Kluivert, vBasten or RvN but only to playmakers… well then, yes, he was the greatest playmaker since Gullit and no one has done better since.

Posted from  Netherlands

Some time ago I made a comment about the importance of having a good goalkeeper at the WC and how goalkeepers can completely change the outcome of any match. I referred to a game against Belgium with the goalkeeper Preud’homme but I didn’t remember anymore when it exactly was and what Holland team was in it. Just found it looking for some Bergkamp-Oranje material (he’s in there as well, so it relates to this topic):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds946ebHjMU

Anyone remember that one?

Posted from  Netherlands

And here’s another perfect example what can happen if you field a goalkeeper that isn’t quite wordclass yet (vdSar early years, again Bergkamp is in it as well):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g_TMwtQn8o&NR=1

This is like something that could happen if we field Stekelenburg (who also isn’t quite worldclass yet perhaps, just like vdSar was).

Posted from  Netherlands

The game also kind of shows the reason why I always liked Kluivert just a bit more than Bergkamp. He was like Huntelaar, a bit more effective in finishing and chosing his positions so we got the goals.

Posted from  Netherlands

But then again, like you said, they had different roles.

Posted from  Netherlands

I never saw Cruijff or van Basten play live, I did see Dennis play quite a bit. The Iceman was BY FAR the best Oranje I have ever seen play in any position.

I’m watching Van Persie with Arsenal against Man City and he does play just like Dennis…