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Crystal Ball, pt 2: Oranje 2010

July 28th, 2009 | By: Jan | 60 Comments »

Why not? With only eleven months to go and with most of you already putting up your fave names…let’s make a crystal ball post on this. What does Oranje look like in a year from now…

Goalkeepers:
Guessing that Maarten Stekelenburg will remain Ajax’ number one, it seems fair to assume that he will remain Oranje’s goalie. I think Bert van Marwijk wants to take an experienced goalie as number 2 and a young talent – for educational purposes mainly – as a number 3.

Henk Timmer might be still Bert’s man for the second spot, provided he finds a new club AND performs well. These are big ifs…

If Henkie isn’t able to do so, I think that Sander Boschker or Sander Westerhuis might qualify (if Westerhuis finds a good club, that is…). Boschker is a great goalie but a tad small, Westerhuis is a good goalie with a tremendous mentality and a good team man.

And who knows, maybe Bert can convince Van der Sar to hop along as second goalie…

For the number 3 position, Bert could go Vorm or Velthuizen. I don’t have a preference.

Defense:
I simply can’t see Ooijer going to the WC. Let’s just open with that. Ooijer is rusty, injury prone and in fact – not a good football player. If players like Marcellis, Loovens, Wielaert,Vlaar or Maduro develop well, I think one of these four could tag along for the center back position.
Ooijer might play a tremendous season for PSV and deserve a spot after all, but I don’t think it will happen.
For the back positions, Van der Wiel/Heitinga for right back and Gio/Braafheid on the left. I think Braafheid will bypass Gio. Bouma might become an option if he reaches top fitness. The Aston Villa man can also play center back, by the way (as can Heitinga of course).
Zuiverloon will become an option if he moves to a better club.
Tim De Cler has good credentials as well. Should Feyenoord perform top notch, he might get in Bert’s sights. Van Marwijk did sign him in his last year at Feyenoord. De Cler has been injury sensitieve lately and is moving on in years as well. I think the key here is: how does Braafheid develop.

With Hedwiges Maduro, Bert might have a libero with tremendous build up skills. Maduro always lacked toughness and concentration but playing at Valencia will definitely take care of that.

Holding midfielders:
Theoretically, Bert van Marwijk can chose and pick from Gio van Bronckhorst, Nigel de Jong, Mark van Bommel, Stijn Schaars, Demy de Zeeuw, Orlando Engelaar and potentially Wesley Sneijder. For now it seems reasonable to expect Bommel, De Jong, Schaars and De Zeeuw to be selected but it will depend on how they perform this season. One bad season or a season benched and Bertje will change his little group.

Midfield:
Again, the actual players selected will be determined by the players themselves, just like the holding midfielders. Van Marwijk does not have a problem in midfield, unless some of them don’t get to play. The core is known. Top names like Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Affelay. Kuyt, Van Persie…
It seems Robin van Persie will be top dog, if he remains fit. Same can be said about Kuyt.
Affelay is still not certain. A disappointing season at PSV and a player like Elia or De Guzman could walz in. I might be mistaken but the threesome Vaart, Sneijder, Robben will always be selected if they’re fit even if they won’t play to regularly. If Bert will leave a player home of this three, it will be only one player. He won’t risk leaving two or three of our big name players out.

Attack:
Patrick Kluivert said it in an interview: we don’t have real centerstrikers anymore. Klaas Jan is the lone Hunter. Elia, Van Persie, Kuyt and even Van der Vaart can play the center striker role, but they’re not killers. Ruud van Nistelrooy is the only other real striker we have, Vennegoor and Koevermans are simply not of the right level. Van Wolfswinkel needs to prove his worth still and I don’t want to even mention the 16 year old from Rotterdam. See, I don’t even mention his name!

Van Nistelrooy could reach his old level and would be the ideal man for Oranje, maybe even as number 1 striker! But it depends on his recovery. It’s not easy for a 32 year old come back after such an operation.

Bert did play two games without Hunter in the starting position and Oranje played great football. A bit like Spain/Barcelona, with lots of movement in and around the box. Against more traditional opponents like England and Italy, Oranje could wreak havoc this way. I can therefore see Van Marwijk play with Robben on the left, Kuyt on the right and Van Persie deep. Van der Vaart did well as playmaker so the only thing Bert needs to change, is moving Sneijder one line back and moving Van Bommel one line back.

Therefore, my Ideal Line Up today (could change):

Stekelenburg
Van der Wiel Mathijsen Van Bommel Braafheid
De Jong Sneijder
Kuyt Van der Vaart Robben
Van Persie

Subs: Van der Sar, Huntelaar, Elia, Schaars, De Zeeuw, Gio, Boulahrouz

Tags: Group C, Kuyt, Oranje, Robben, Schaars, Sneijder, van der Sar, Van Marwijk, van Nistelrooy, van Persie

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Comments

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 60 comments.

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By Tiju | July 29th, 2009 at 5:25 am

@jan if want to win the cup we need luck also.i think luck often follows the brave peoples.some times champions have to fight against luck and reffery

Posted from India

By Tiju | July 29th, 2009 at 5:34 am

Dear all,
It will be too early to say who should be picked up for 2010Wc and how far we will go in WC2010.Injury will play a huge role. Look at stage of Gijs luirink,Ron vlaar and castelen I expected lot from these three players. But injury killed their 2 years. First of all we have to decide on our playing system hopefully we will go with a 14231 system have observed the performance of HULL inEPL.they don’t have a star player in the first half of the EPL, they played superbly and got the reward. The second half they lost their rhythm due to injuries and inexperience. But they utilized their limited resource very well, which is very very important. In another way we can model AZ Alkmaar of 2008-09.Utimately the players should give up their ego and they should play with enough confidence and they should play for the team.
OK.
Let us start with strikers.
There are two positions for strikers as per 14231system.
For me I would always prefer Hunter as my first choice striker but it may varry with respect to the balence of the team.this guy is a top world class finisher and has the champion mentality and a team player. Remmember he won EU21 for us from VACCUM. He is in right age also.
Every body knows about the class of RVN and explanation is not needed for his acrobatic goal scoring skills. But I doubt about his mentality, earlier he was a selfish player, but after joining with Real he changed. But frankly I am looking for a rising star in Castaginos or Wolfswinkel.More over RVN doesn’t have the stamina for a tight 120-minute match. We can groom Babel in to this role also, and then he doesn’t have to compete with Roban and Elia.Hope castaginos will come up with surprise and shall earn a spot in the team like Owen did for England in 1998.But I will not waste a spot in the bench so I will go for Van persie as second stiker.it will give multiple options for the manager.Kuyt is also a 50% striker. Ultimately with hunter-Persie and kuyt we will have three strikers so why should we waste another spot? is n’t it?
I know it is going to be controversial but i hope with the below mentioned players we will win WC2010.if BVM uses them in a proper way
Strikers
1-Huntlaar
2-Vanpersie
Attacking Six
Wesley znijder
Rafel Van der vaart
Dirk kuyt
Arjen Roban
Ejaro Elia.
Jonathan De Guzman
Romeo castelen( if fit )
Holding and buildup threes
Urby Emmanuelson
Stijn Schaars
Nijel Dejong
Diffenece
LB1-Edson Brapheid
CB1-Mathjenson
CB1-Bulahruz
RB1-Zuiverloon
LB2-Gio vani/Bouma
CB2-Marcelis/Luirink/Heitinga?
CB2-Vlaar/Maduro?
RB2-Van der weil
Goal keepers
1-stekelen burg
2-Peit Velthuizen
3-Michel Vorm
So my first eleven
Would be
———————–Stekelenburg—————————–

Zuiverloo—–Bulahruz——Mathjenson—–Brapheid

—————De-Jong———-Znjider——————-

Elia————————-Vaart—————–Roban

———————–Vanpersie—————————-
Actually I don’t believe in a name of
Second eleven

——————-Peit Velthuizen————————

Vander weil—–Maduro/Vlaar—-Marcelis/Lurink/heitinga——Gio/Bouma

————————–schaars——Emmauelson——————————-

Kuyt———————–Castelen—————De Guzman

————————-Hunter—————————–
I will post my worries and negative sof these players later.

Posted from India

By Tiju | July 29th, 2009 at 5:35 am

Zuiverloon is the most trustworthy right of Orange at the momment.

Posted from India

By sonneveld | July 29th, 2009 at 6:37 am

what about loovens, isn’t he doing great for celtic and he’s big!

By Jan | July 29th, 2009 at 8:07 am

I’m sure Loovens is on Van Marwijk’s radar. He made his debut for Feyenoord under Bert. This season, Loovens should make it into the regular starting line up for Celtic and do well, and I’m sure he’ll get a nod.

By Caleb | July 29th, 2009 at 9:18 am

@Finnster – I believe Robben was fit for all of EC2004… it could happen again!

Posted from Canada

By Alex | July 29th, 2009 at 10:26 am

I don’t have a fixed selection in my minde, just a possibilities list

Goal:
Stekelenburg
Vorm
Vermeer
Velthuizen

Defence:
Boulahrouz
Heitinga
Marcellis
Braafheid
Donk(yeah seriously)
Bouma
V.d.wiel
Zuiverloon
Vlaar
Maduro
Loovens
Luirink
Gio

Midfield and attack:
V.Bommel
De Jong
De Zeeuw
Schaars
Mendes da Silva
Sneijder
V.d.Vaart
De Guzman
Emanuelson
Beerens
Afellay
Babel
Huntelaar
Robben
Kuyt
V.Persie
Elia
Amrabat

Posted from Netherlands

By finnster01 | July 29th, 2009 at 11:10 am

@caleb: He might have been fit for the tournament mate, but he was injured just prior to it and was out of match fitness.

By goose | July 29th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

vMarwijk just made his pre-selection; most important; Timmer is out and Vorm (fc Utrecht) is in..Eliah also made it in the pre-selection

Posted from Netherlands

By goose | July 29th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

@Alex; Amrabat is useless

Posted from Netherlands

By sonneveld | July 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

Maarten Stekelenburg (Ajax), Piet Velthuizen (Vitesse Arnhem), Michel Vorm (FC Utrecht); John Heitinga (Atletico Madrid), Andre Ooijer (PSV Eindhoven), David Mendes da Silva (AZ Alkmaar), Edson Braafheid (Bayern Munich), Dirk Marcellis (PSV Eindhoven), Joris Mathijsen (Hamburg), Gregory van der Wiel (Ajax); Mark van Bommel (Bayern Munich), Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord), Nigel de Jong (Manchester City), Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Wesley Sneijder (Real Madrid), Rafael van der Vaart (Real Madrid), Orlando Engelaar (PSV Eindhoven), Arjen Robben (Real Madrid), Stijn Schaars (AZ Alkmaar), Demy de Zeeuw (Ajax); Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Real Madrid), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Ibrahim Afellay (PSV Eindhoven), Ryan Babel (Liverpool), Eljero Elia (Hamburg).

By Igor | July 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

tiju my friend, i think that it is too easy to say that the ‘98 and 2000 teams failed because we didn’t have good penalty takers, especially if you believe that by 2004 we “fixed” that problem. i mean in 2004 the 6 who took penalties were RVN, heitinga, reizinger, cocu (who missed again, so clearly advocaat’s penalty coaching did not help him improve on his ‘98 performance), makaay and a young robben. in 98 the four shooters were f. de boer, bergkamp, cocu and r. de boer which on average seem like more competent penalty takers than the 6 in 2004. in 2000 the 2 penaltys in regulation time were taken by kluivert and f. de boer, both of whom are good penalty kick takers and would have been the designated kickers on a lot of other teams. really by the time the game goes to a shoot-out, it is just luck as to who will win and the outcome is not based on skill. in 98 both teams played well and if netherlands were truly greater than brazil they would have found a way to win before the shootout (we won’t talk about the italy game right now, greatest injustice in a football match ever).

you also bring up the point about how van basten never worked on stamina/endurance and that is why we had trouble against strong running teams like russia and ivory coast. but really fitness is not something that a national team coach can work on when most of his players have a busy schedule playing CL, league and cup games for their big club. the national team only gets together for a few days at a time when the focus has to be to get the players used to playing with each other and make the team gel. you also can’t work on fitness just before a major tournament, as it is something that takes time to improve on (only a person that is really out of shape would be able to notice improvements in just a week of training) and plus you don’t really want an intense training camp just before the WC because then your players will be burned out by the time the finals come around. that is why club teams work on fitness in the pre-season and give their players a chance to recuperate before the season starts. really fitness is a club and individual player responsability as it is something that has to be worked on continually and therefore there is not much a national team coach can do about that – other than always playing kuyt that is

Posted from Canada

By greg | July 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

Holland should won 98 World Cup and 2000 Euro, and that analyze by Igor is bullshit. Yes, Holland lose because they fall in penalties

By sonneveld | July 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

vev, van nistelrooy, and rvp are all great at penalties. bet we would have beet the russians

By Jan | July 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

No no

Igor is spot on!

Taking a penalty is a mental thing. F de Boer and Kluivert indeed were sure spotkickers. In those games, it takes more than “taking a penalty”. It’s the pressure, fatigue, all that.

By Caleb | July 30th, 2009 at 10:03 am

Good points Igor, I completely agree! I think Tiju’s reasons were oversimplified to say the least – it’s way too simple an explanation to say “we didn’t have good penalty takers”, besides the obvious fact that we did in fact have some very good penalty takers (like Kluivert and F de Boer).

Posted from Canada

By Big Mark | July 30th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

Everyone’s mentioning Velthuizen and Vorm as backups…I think they should take a look at Kenneth Vermeer; he is more consistent, but the fact that he is behind Maarten at Ajax is holding him back from national contention. He was superb at the Olympics (where he started OVER Velthuizen) and during Steks’ injury period. The Sons of Gods might feel fit to move one of them so Vermeer could become an established starter and a clear option for the team (his contract is up in 2010, right?)

Plus, what is Tim Krul up to these days?

Posted from United States

By Carlos | July 30th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Agree with Mark – I am a Vermeer fan having watched him win the Euros with the youth team and his display in the Olympics was basically Vermeer & Marcellis versus the rest. Ajax are trying to get him to re-sign longer term. Krul is in Arsenal’s focus at the moment. I believe after WC2010, Steks will go overseas.

Posted from Singapore

By Tiju | July 30th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

Igor and Casleb Just one or two good penalty takers doesnt win the match.we need at least seven.

Posted from India

By Jan | July 31st, 2009 at 1:22 am

We shouldn’t have ended up in penalty territory in the first place.

JC: A good penalty is a penalty that goes in. A bad penalty is a penalty that’s stopped.

Penalties to finish off a game are a lottery.

EC2000, WC1998, EC1992, we should have killed the game in the 90 minutes/120 minutes.

By Tiju | July 31st, 2009 at 5:08 am

@jan well said we should have finished game before 90/120minutes.thats true………Those days we played dominent football but lacked vital goals or crucial goals.The reason that time we didnt had a scoring midfielder in our eleven.We always relyed on Kluievrt and bergcamp.when they failed we lost the match thats it.Finishing of players like cocu,zeadorf,davids was too predictable that time.Those days strikers scored majority of goals not the midfeilders.But now players like vaart and znijder scores more than a striker..that is a big diference.and i belive thats why we won against italy and france after a long time..isnt it?

Posted from India

By ferenc | July 31st, 2009 at 5:53 am

you know,tju why vdv and sneijder score more than our strikers? because after ther international retirement we don’t have any decent strikers. with kluivert and bergkamp it was easy but believe me cocu,overmars,ronald de boer and seedorf weren’t that bad in scoring.

one more thing – 31 july and none of our boys in madrid was sold. i occasonally read articles that stuttgart,arsenal,tottenham,milan whatever want to sign huntelaar. same with vdv… pellegrini made it clear that he didn’t count on him. why the hell they don’t make the necessary effort to find a club?
i don’t appreciate this mentality at all – just sitting on the bench for big money instead of playing somewhere else for less money. i compare them to hleb who didn’t play too often at barca last year (and now is in stuttgart) – do you think he felt good on the bench?
bad (?) news from madrid: if they sign xabi alonso they probably will sell wesley sneijder.

Posted from Hungary

By ferenc | July 31st, 2009 at 5:54 am

the international retirement of rvn

Posted from Hungary

By Tiju | July 31st, 2009 at 6:38 am

@fernec you could be right partially.But goal scoring skills of vandervaart and znijder is head and shoulder above the likes of cocu,Zeadorf,Overmars,Davids etc,Even though i dont like the unnecessary selfish shoots of znijder.

Posted from India

By Caleb | July 31st, 2009 at 10:06 am

Overmars was actually a pretty good goal scorer, and Cocu also got a decent goal return for a midfielder – although not as much with Oranje unfortunately…

Ferenc – there’s still another month in the transfer window, I’m sure we’ll still see a lot of movement. Huntelaar will for sure go somewhere else, and I wouldn’t doubt Vdv also going somewhere else. As for the others I’m not so sure…

Posted from Canada

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