Blues want Van Basten- Capello

You wouldnt do better Mario. All your posts have shown your total lack of knowledge about the sports complexity and depth. A new coach is always a new coach. Romania is not a bad team, and to rebuild the team just before a game against them could prove fatal.

guys!! lets stay respectful… were all on the same team here..we all bring something to this blog!

have to agree with Mario on vanBastens bad record (when it comes to the quality of play) but Lerkot is right that a change in manager at this moment would be a bad thing

grtz (and peace! haha)

Posted from  Netherlands

I understand what you are saying Lerkot, but I don’t think it would prove as fatal as you suppose. These guys are all profesionals, playing for the biggest clubs in the world, most of which play in differing systems and styles than Marco tries to force. A little tweak here and there and we would probably see guys playing in positions that are more natural to their skills. I mean its not like these guys would forget how to play football and just blow it. In fact, often times when coaches are replaced, teams will perform well initially, seeing it as a new start and breath of fresh air, so to speak. It could be just what the doctor ordered. I’m not saying that this IS the case, or there won’t be adjustments etc, but I don’t think it would be near as tragic as you think.

Posted from  United States

grant don’t have the permission needed for a club manager in the uk . i don’t think that they are seriously interested in marco. it’s just a gossip. but grant doesn’t look like a good coach. they probably will find someone soon. i’m 99% sure that this person won’t be san marco.

it wouldn’t be a good idea to change marco before the roumania game. anyway this is not the case. i don’t want to defend him but the problem is that we have plenty of talents for attacking , whereas even hiddink couldn’t do too much with our defenders. they are not good enough. here we tried several times to figure out a creative person controlling the game from the back and we had always put mostly attacking-minded midfielders into this role. this is the real problem with oranje. let’see barca was brilliant in the last 3 games – and why? because we have the solidity in defence and in the holding role with guys like zambrotta,marquez,milito,abidal,yaya toure. unfortunately,oranje doesn’t have the same quality defenders/holding midfielders…

i saw real-betis today – it was really boring. poor betis guys hit 3 times the post but finally real won 2-0 with a raul penalty and a beauty of babtista. rvn (who was injured) and drenthe didn’t play. sneijder played and he was substituted by babtista. it wasn’t his best game so far. robben substituted saviola in the 60th minute and he was one of the best madrid players (with raul and sergio ramos). quick, not too selfish,intelligent,tactical sense.

marco should ask for some lessons from his old friend frankie about attractive and dominant football (and messi should ask for the dutch citizenship:-)).

boulah played tuesday,but he’s not too lucky at sevilla. they lost their last 3 games…

Posted from  Hungary

Ok Lerkot, I didn´t want to ofend you man, sorry if I did.
Perhaps you don´t like the way I think and it´s fine with me because we all have different views and opinions about many issues, but I can tell I know something about football…and what I said is that even with a strong team like Romania it will not matter to replace van Basten because the Netherlands national team seems that is going to play worse and worse with him every game…I don´t see spirit, I don´t see motivation, I don´t see a tactical and reasonable game plan for the players we have and a change will only be to improve because with van Basten everything is going pretty bad now.
Romania doesn´t have a top team like in 1994, they don´t have stars, just Chivu and Mutú and we are tied with them?.
Our group to get to the Euro 2008 couldn´t be easier, if we had been in the group of France, Italy, Scotland and Ukraine we would be out for sure, I am not optimistic at all with van Basten and to fire him now or that he goes to Chelsea will only be good news for Dutch football in my opinion.
If he stays he will qualify Holland to Euro 2008 but in the tournament he will not do very well unless he starts playing Seedorf, making peace with van Bommel, playing a 4-4-2 system and doing the logical stuff.
But before and after the Portugal game this coach has had so many bad calls that I don´t know what to expect now.
I mean, van Gaal, de Haan, van Marwijk or any experienced Dutch coach would not bench Seedorf the whole game, perhaps five years ago that would be normal, but today Seedorf is the best midfielder in Europe, every coach would love to have him in his team…well everybody except Marco. And he does bench very often the best players of the team like he has done with Ruud, van Bommel, Davids at some time.

Seriously, I can´t defend a guy that made such poor decisions at a World Cup like if it was a friendly game or any other game. We were playing to be among the best 8 nations of the world against a top team like Portugal and he did bench our best striker and van Basten as a top forward when he was footballer for me it is an insult to Dutch football because we lost because of him, every football expert said after the game that Holland lost vs Portugal because Holland´s coach didn´t want to use his best weapons and Scolari was laughing about it, in Mexican television all the commentators were saying that, even one expert said that if Ruud was not injured he couldn´t understand any resons of why he didn´t play and that van Basten should resing for his stupidity, well I think the same.
I respect him for what he did as a player because he was great and nobody will forget that never, but as a coach he hasn´t done anything interesting or impressing and I think that he should try his luck at club level and then when he learns the subject of being a top manager then he could try his luck again with Oranje but I think I am just dreaming because I find it difficult that he goes to Chelsea now but if he does there will not be any problem because as Stephen says, our players are top players and I think it will be good for them a change at Oranje…I see them tired of being played out of position (not all but many players are) and I think that some guys are tired of the system Marco thinks is the best in the universe and they can´t develop their game under those circunstances besides the way Marco directs and talks for me is amateur. Anyway, let´s see what happens and don´t get mad Lerkot because I didn´t want to be mean with you. We love Oranje and whatever happens I hope that will benefit us, perhaps next game San Marco will surprise us with a 4-4-2 system with Ruud and van Persie as shadow striker and nos that Sneijder is suspended perhaps we might see Seedorf starting, who knows?!!?.

Hup Holland!

Here’s my take on the Marco visit.

Abramovich is quite possibly the worlds richest footy fan and as such approaches the game from a perspective that leaves him a little starry eyed. His misses the subtle detail of a person raised on the game or has played at a competitive level. So? Well, while I’m sure he is very intelligent his ideas about the game are borrowed, and idealistic. That’s not a bad thing, but as such he’s also a sucker for the legend, the big name, the star. If I was stinking rich and wanted to talk footy, or buy some players I’d probably call up Marco, or JC, slash some cash on Shev, shit I’d probably try and lure Dennis out of retirement just cause I could afford it.That’s why Marco was there in my opinion. Will he become the new coach? Possibly. Given Marco’s ability to talk the talk and his similar idealism, and the fact that he’s slightly arrogant (a trait Abramovich clearly likes) and Chelsea play a 4-3-3 (which is really a 4-5-1 in my opinion) the odds are good. I’m not holding my breath though.

As for Oranje and it’s place in this puzzle. Swapping a coach out now wouldn’t be prudent, even a coach I feel isn’t getting the best out of the team. Once they qualify… definitely. Marco stated before the WC that he felt the team he was building was aimed to hit it’s stride for the EC 08. Nice bit of politic-ing. It’s fair to say that the team hasn’t grown, several of the players have, but the growth of the team is nearly non-existent. And, judging by Marco’s recent appearances and comments he hasn’t really grown either. We all realize how difficult and different international coaching is compared to club footy, and Marco’s abilities are clearly not suited to the international task. He’s going to do much better where the solution to a shaky defense is to buy some talent. Square pegs for his square holes.

Posted from  Canada

Ah, goose, it would be a bad thing on the short term. But long term, might just be great is vBasten leaves for Chelsea. Let’s say, mid November (humm….), that’s gives the KNVB two weeks to find a new coach (anyone who can honestly handle the team, say Guus) since they really need to get there stuff together. Then the coach has from December until what, May? to learn the players he can choose from, their individual styles of play, etc.?

I’d say it would be stupid of Abramovitsch to go for Marco. What did he prove other than talking the talk, as someone said earlier.

He hasn’t proven he can play attractive football, he hasn’t proven he can get results, he has proven to alienate some important players by occasion (RvN, Clarence, Bommel, Sar, Edgar Davids) and he hasn’t got any experience in managing a club team.

Too risky, in other words. Rich people are not stupid, mostly. Unless they inherited it all, and Rom didn’t.

Rom needs someone like Wenger. Louis van Gaal would be suited, same personality as Mourinho but compared to the Chosen One, Louis goes for attractive football.

Louis, with Willem van Hanegem and Marco as assistants. Then Martin Jol can coach Oranje.

Posted from  Australia

He has indeed proven he can get results. To qualify to two straight tournaments and to advance in that tournament when you are in the toughest group of all indeed is proving something.

To take over a team, meet the players for the first time and get them to learn how to play just in a couple of games has through times shown to be a very difficult task. Here is the record of first games for all different managers through 1990 and onwards:

1990 onwards
Leo Beenhakker: Loss
Rinus Michels (last era): Loss
Dick Advocaat (first era): Loss
Guus Hiddink: Loss
Frank Rijkaard: Win (a dozen of games after that game was lost or drawn though)
Louis van Gaal: Draw
Dick Advocaat (second era): Draw
Marco van Basten: Draw

Wins: 1
Draws: 3
Losses: 4

Its easy to say that Romania is a team without stars. Its easy, and its also pretty wrong. Romania is one of the best home teams in Europe and they got a fair amount of good players.

Their defenders are better than ours. Their midfield isnt top of the tops but its obviously enough to qualify for the Champions League, and Dorinel Munteanu should never be forgotten. He got the experience that a team needs to fight the Netherlands.

Their attack is decent, of course not as dangerous as ours (cause I dont know how that would be possible) but Mutu has proven that he is a threat. Marica is very dangerous on counter-attacks with his speed and I wouldnt like to have too many fights between him and Ooijer.

To me, qualifying for big tournaments with Oranje doesn’t count as results. With results I mean prices. EC 1 cup (Hiddink, Van Gaal), UEFA Cup (Van Marwijk),competition championships (Koeman, Van Gaal, Hiddink) or international titles with the national team (or top 4 positions)… Van Basten hasn’t proven that he can do that. To me, with Oranje, he is in the Dick Advocaat/Leo Beenhakker category, not in the Hiddink/Michels/Rijkaard category.

But, that’s just me. You don’t have to listen to me. My kids don’t. And neither do my dogs

Posted from  Australia

Nice one JVB.. all very true… (would love to see Dennis leave retirement, haha..that would be something else)

agree with Jan; qualifying is not really a result.. you only have like 3-4 big games during qualifying, just dont loose them and youll qualify

maybe vanBasten can make a difference once he starts training on a daily base with the players but he has already proven a million times that he is a lousy Bondscoach

dont really care that much about results..if you play good football, good results will follow…now vanBasten just had the luck that we have some amasing talent up front and it has saved his ass more than once

vanBasten – Oranje: NO PROGRESS!!!

Posted from  Netherlands

For me qualifying is the same as for Jan. If you get to the tournament it is the least you have to do as manager and certainly van Basten had done that. But what people around the world remember is what the team does in the tournament and certainly Holland didn´t do anything spectacular this last World Cup. To pass the first round is not an achievement to be remember when you are a top football nation as Holland is. Perhaps in Ghana or in Switzerland that is a big acomplishment but in the Netherlands it isn´t. The Netherlands has been pretty close to being world champions, have one of richest football schools and programs for the youth and teams like Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord have been European Champions as well as the National team. The list of top players that Holland has produced is big and the coaches of Holland are considered among the best, like Michels, who is considered the best football coach of all times. Mr. van Basten has not shown anything and I think he is desperate to clean his image either at a big club like Chelsea or at Euro 2008, of course I would love that he becomes a top coach someday but he has to start being more flexible right now or he wil fail in every project he takes as a coach. He will qualify Holland for the tournament but everybody will remember him for what he did on the big stage and if he doesn´t deliver at Euro 08 then his time as Netherlands coach will be considered as a total failure. But who knows, perhaps he takes the Chelsea job before, the big millions of Roman are too tempting, I would not refuse them myself…he pays too well, ask Mourinho, he is loaded with cash.

Mario: 1. the chelsea stuff is just sun-like gossip 2. i would like to see ither coach too,but marco has a completely un balanced bznch of players (like for ex. real have 3 dutxh player for the same position) 3. how do you want to win the ec08 without any (i mean: any) decent top level defender? (because we don’t have…)

Posted from  Hungary

I agree with you Ferenc, our defense is pretty weak…I believe van Basten will not go to Chelsea but in football anything can happen.
Hopefully our younger players like Vlaar, Donk, Emmanuelson, Zuiverloom and some other guys can fill that space properly because although the defenders we have right now are that bad players, they certainly lack the skill that our defense had a few years ago with guys like de Boer, Reiziger, Numan, etc.

MVB to Chelsea, should it happen, this is what we call addition by subtraction for Oranje.

@Bob: what i meant to say about Hiddink is that Hiddink brings something to a team that has nothing to do with tactics but with confedence… Guus always has something presidential about him.. hes the ultimate people-manager… cause of this, the story behind the person gets more importent…he had his succes with Psv and some spanish teams..he did more than ok with the WC98…but ever since the Korea story in WC02 Guus has grown larger than life!! i even have a book called CEO Hiddink, written by 2 Korean scientists were they write about him as he was a semi-God…then Australia; his legend even grew larger… i was just wondering if Guus doenst qualify for EC08 if it would break down the ‘legend’.

Bob; just wanted to say thanx you for your(you and your wife) gesture the other day…sorry but its all a bit too private…hope i dont offend you… just behalve of me and my wife wanted to say thanx anyway , we really appriciate it…

i remember that you had VAN in your name..(right?)..hers my all time fav. Oranje with only players with VAN in their names:

van Breukelen

van Aerle van Tiggelen van Bronkhorst

van Bommel van der Vaart van Hanegem

van Persie van Basten van ‘t Schip

van Nistelrooy

not a bad team eh?

grtz

Posted from  Netherlands

That is funny Goose…very good . And a great team.

But why not Van Beveren?

Posted from  Australia

Happy Birthday FRANK RIJKAARD!

Posted from  Hungary

My all time favorites: (4-4-1-1)

van der Sar
(1)
________________________________Krol Koeman Rijkaard de Boer
(2) (4) (5) (3) _______________________________

Davids
(6)

Gullit Cruyff van Hanegem
(10) (14) (8)
________________________________
Bergkamp
_____________(7)________________
van Basten
(9)

The list is big because there great players like van Breukelen, van Beveren, Stam, Cocu, Seedorf, Overmars, Rep, Neeskens, Muhren, van Nistelrooy, Kluivert, van Persie, Robben and many more but in my opinion the eleven players I list are pretty good although it is very difficult to say if they are the best but certainly they have the skills. =)

I wanted to list them like this:
(sorry for the mistake hehe)

1- van der Sar (GK)
2-Krol (RIGHT BACK)
3-de Boer (LEFT BACK)
4-Koeman (SWEEPER)
5-Rijkaard (STOPPER)
* Rijkaard will have freedom to go to midfield to use his skills.
6-Davids (HOLDING MID)
7-Bergkamp (SHADOW STRIKER)
8-van Hanegem (LEFT MIDFIELDER)
9-van Basten (CENTRAL STRIKER)
10-Gullit (RIGHT MIDFIELDER)
*Gullit is starting on the right but can have freedom on the pitch.
14-Cruyff (OFFENSIVE MIDFIELDER)

Of course Cruyff will have the freedom to move himself all over the pitch because of his huge talent.

Well, that is just a thought, great players there have been in the Netherlands, quite amazing!

I just wonder wheather any other country produces so many talented players in terms of the geographic size of the country.Of course Brazil produces lots of talents, but if u compare the size of the country(Brazil is huze)and population, Holland produces most number of outrageous talents.The size is almost equal to B’Desh and population only 150 million(that’s equal to the city of Dhaka),that’s pretty amazing.
@Ferenc, u really r a die hard fan of Barca.By the way,Gullit was also born in September,1st Sept. to be precise.

Posted from  Bangladesh

Hi Doc,

As far as I know Holland has the biggest consistent ratio of talent vs number of inhabitants. Belgium had a great run in the 80s, Denmark had its era, but the consistency of Holland from the 60s till now has never been matched.

And it wasn’t “just” a good and talented generation, it is – based on the 50s/70s talents of Jansen, Cruyff, etc- mainly the youth development system that was implemented in that time and perfected by the likes of Coerver, Meulensteen and clubs like Sparta, Ajax, Feyenoord and FC Utrecht…

Posted from  Australia

@ferenc; Henry x3… looks like he finally has settled eh! looks like most of the pressure is of Rijkaard now

@Jan; was thinking about van Beveren but just always had a soft spot for van Breukelen..what a maniac he was!! on the bench are also; van Hooydonk and van der Kuylen (most underrated striker in duch footballing history) did i forget any more ‘van’s’? was van Haenegem the only ‘van’in the 70’s??

and yes people…we are special…only 16 mln of us…wonder why that is? David Winner (a brilliant orange) wrote that it had to do with the fact that Holland is such a small counrty, that the dutch made their own country (God created the world, the dutch created Holland) and therefor are good in looking for space in an unusual way

i think now; after the Bosman trial we are lucky to have a small counrty with an ok legeau were players can learn their trade and then move on to the big clubs…the one thing you always here is that dutch players are easy in adepting to a new enviroment…thats succes!!

we rule!!! hahaaha

Posted from  Netherlands

Yeah, I know about your Breuk affinity . I wasn’t such a fan to be honest.
and I always loved that Winner statement, about trying to find space . The Dutch are officially the tallest people too and I always tell people in Australia that is because Holland is so small, and we need space so we grow taller (like plants and trees…)

Posted from  Australia

@goose: 2 famous van from the seventies: rene and willy van de kerkhof. van hoijdonk: you’re right – he was underestimated (due to his misfortune of playing in the heydays of patrick kluivert and dennis bergkamp…). i loved this guy.
i saw yesterday henry,haha… he even could have scored 3 more goals. the probleme is that each game we loose someone: wednesday we lost zambrotta at least for one month and yesterday yaya toure for 3 weeks. the latter is the more problematic because we don’t have any other decent defending/holding midfielder.

@goc: sure,i’m an ardent barca fan,but frank rijkaard was one of my all time fav players and i love his personality too. now he’s my favourite coach. and i’m happy because my favourite coach works for my favourite club:-)

@Jan: i remember van beveren but not too much. you know at this time i was very young and broadcasting wasn’t as advanced as now… it means that i only saw him 2 or 3 times…

Posted from  Hungary