Comments on: Afellay: what a week http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html World Cup 2010 - South Africa, Oranje, Nederlands Elftal, Eredivisie, Marco van Basten, Dutch football, The Netherlands Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:55:54 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: goose http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70566 goose Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:49:34 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70566 @Jan, actually i have no real recollection of the Italia game..think i must have blocked it from my memories... i just remember leaving the house where i was watching before the penalty-shootout, remeber walking to the trainstation and suddenly hearing swearing, seeing doors swing open and people trowing out all the orange they could find...it was no surprise for me but still was very depressed about it...yet again a change to win something was missed @Jan, actually i have no real recollection of the Italia game..think i must have blocked it from my memories…

i just remember leaving the house where i was watching before the penalty-shootout, remeber walking to the trainstation and suddenly hearing swearing, seeing doors swing open and people trowing out all the orange they could find…it was no surprise for me but still was very depressed about it…yet again a change to win something was missed

]]> By: goose http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70553 goose Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:28:01 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70553 1. dont think it was Jan...remember that it was vanBasten who told press he wanted a different 'face' for the team and he was the one who said that Seedorf, Kluivert, Davids were old and were just big names from the past, i mean Hiddink had the thing with Davids in 96 but he still selected him and they made up after Davids scored the winner against Yougoslavia in WC 98, Seedorf and Kluivert were always in Oranje when Hiddink was manager 2. Dont think we have much racists here in Holland in general and im sure vanBasten isnt one of those very few dumb people 3. Maybe, but still the KNVB has the last word on the subject, they made their choice to ask Cruyff as an adviseur 4. Thats maybe the case in the vanNistelrooy saga but cerntainly not what happened with vanBommel who (lets say it for the 100 th time, haha) never had a real change of proving himself @ferenc; know you are a Rijkaard fan...im not so sure myself...we had a great team in 2000, we played at home...we were very lucky the first game, had an easy game against the Yougo's a game without meaning against France (with that great freekick from F.deBoer) and then the first real game against italY it was all lost..true we missed 2 penaltykicks in one game but was never really impressed with Oranje that EC...still think those 88 boys have it all too easy...(Jan whats the english saying for: in een gespreid bedje komen??) grtz 1. dont think it was Jan…remember that it was vanBasten who told press he wanted a different ‘face’ for the team and he was the one who said that Seedorf, Kluivert, Davids were old and were just big names from the past, i mean Hiddink had the thing with Davids in 96 but he still selected him and they made up after Davids scored the winner against Yougoslavia in WC 98, Seedorf and Kluivert were always in Oranje when Hiddink was manager
2. Dont think we have much racists here in Holland in general and im sure vanBasten isnt one of those very few dumb people
3. Maybe, but still the KNVB has the last word on the subject, they made their choice to ask Cruyff as an adviseur
4. Thats maybe the case in the vanNistelrooy saga but cerntainly not what happened with vanBommel who (lets say it for the 100 th time, haha) never had a real change of proving himself

@ferenc; know you are a Rijkaard fan…im not so sure myself…we had a great team in 2000, we played at home…we were very lucky the first game, had an easy game against the Yougo’s a game without meaning against France (with that great freekick from F.deBoer) and then the first real game against italY it was all lost..true we missed 2 penaltykicks in one game but was never really impressed with Oranje that EC…still think those 88 boys have it all too easy…(Jan whats the english saying for: in een gespreid bedje komen??)

grtz

]]> By: ferenc http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70516 ferenc Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:45:51 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70516 @goose: i agree with you expect one: frank rijkaard. for me his oranje played really beautiful (dominant,attractive,etc) football., but the shoot-out was bad. oranje-italy was really special,very very sad result... but frank de boer and kluivert penalties weren't rijkaard's mistake. and he has proved since that he's a great tactician and people-manager as well. anyway,i'm not too objective with him: in his generation he was my favourite player,now he's the coach of my favourite club:-) @goose: i agree with you expect one: frank rijkaard. for me his oranje played really beautiful (dominant,attractive,etc) football., but the shoot-out was bad. oranje-italy was really special,very very sad result… but frank de boer and kluivert penalties weren’t rijkaard’s mistake. and he has proved since that he’s a great tactician and people-manager as well. anyway,i’m not too objective with him: in his generation he was my favourite player,now he’s the coach of my favourite club:-)

]]> By: Bruce http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70503 Bruce Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:40:44 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70503 @MISHA: While I wholeheartedly agree with you on the bizarre selections of vB, although, I think his lineup against Slovenia (for the most part) was quite solid. The key is maintaining a mix of core, veteren players with new and emerging talent, and Ibrihim Affelay is definately one of those players (and doesn't play for AZ, but PSV). He didn't play Maduro or VdVrt because they were injured, and Sneijder did play. Guys like Affelay, de Zeeuw, Emanuelsson, and Schaars need to play because they are the future of Dutch football! However, guys like Landzaat, for example, have been around long enough and failed enough to be completely written off, yet he still gets the starts. Like you said, very unpredictable on behalf of vB!! Just a thought though... do you think if Davids, Bommel, and Ruud were actually OK with vB that they would get a spot on the roster? I'd still prefer Kuijt to Ruud and Sneijder to Bommel anyday... Just throwing that out there... @MISHA:

While I wholeheartedly agree with you on the bizarre selections of vB, although, I think his lineup against Slovenia (for the most part) was quite solid.

The key is maintaining a mix of core, veteren players with new and emerging talent, and Ibrihim Affelay is definately one of those players (and doesn’t play for AZ, but PSV). He didn’t play Maduro or VdVrt because they were injured, and Sneijder did play.

Guys like Affelay, de Zeeuw, Emanuelsson, and Schaars need to play because they are the future of Dutch football! However, guys like Landzaat, for example, have been around long enough and failed enough to be completely written off, yet he still gets the starts. Like you said, very unpredictable on behalf of vB!!

Just a thought though… do you think if Davids, Bommel, and Ruud were actually OK with vB that they would get a spot on the roster? I’d still prefer Kuijt to Ruud and Sneijder to Bommel anyday… Just throwing that out there…

]]> By: goose http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70498 goose Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:13:03 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70498 Btw: its sad but theres a difference between the talent we have and the talent vanBasten can use due to his poor people-managent, thats another of the main problems Btw: its sad but theres a difference between the talent we have and the talent vanBasten can use due to his poor people-managent, thats another of the main problems

]]> By: goose http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70497 goose Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:10:32 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70497 @Misha: really?? never heard anything like that (well remember when he just came to power and broke up 'de kabel'the surinam players who won the Camp.Legeua in '95 with Ajax (Bogarde, Reiziger, Seedorf, Davids, Kluivert) there was some critism form the surinam community) but dont think vanBasten is a racist.. i think the KNVB tought that to be manager of Oranje its enough just to have played in Oranje and at the top level as a player...now; im sure its a benifit but surely theres more to it...vanBasten has proven that, Rijkaard has proven that at Sparta and at the EC 2000, its just not enough to have seen it all as a player and now were doomed....it will take some time after vanBasten is gone to make it more positive....btw: just realised we havent got a real game with Oranje till September!!! F#cking long wait @Misha: really?? never heard anything like that (well remember when he just came to power and broke up ‘de kabel’the surinam players who won the Camp.Legeua in ‘95 with Ajax (Bogarde, Reiziger, Seedorf, Davids, Kluivert) there was some critism form the surinam community) but dont think vanBasten is a racist..

i think the KNVB tought that to be manager of Oranje its enough just to have played in Oranje and at the top level as a player…now; im sure its a benifit but surely theres more to it…vanBasten has proven that, Rijkaard has proven that at Sparta and at the EC 2000, its just not enough to have seen it all as a player and now were doomed….it will take some time after vanBasten is gone to make it more positive….btw: just realised we havent got a real game with Oranje till September!!! F#cking long wait

]]> By: Misha http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70494 Misha Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:57:41 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70494 @ goose, I always totally agree with you, we are playing out a demonstration of total embarrassment. So several things come to mind. 1 Is the problem with the management of KNVB and their selection process for coach? The coach has to be a good coach first no matter if he was a super star player or not. Good coaches develop talent and build chemistry, a la, Arsene Wenger, Sir Alex Ferguson, or Frank Rikjard. 2 Don't know about being optimistic with regards to our talent pool. Still think we have enough world class strikers, mid-fielders, and defenders to rival any 11 another nation can field. Just need a sensible system and good coaching, also may be smart to select the best players available to Oranje. Make them secure with their role and their spot on the team and play them together as much as possible so that they develop a good re pore and understanding of each other. And then go and win some tournaments. 3 Is it true that Marco is maybe racist towards Suriname Dutch? I have heard this allot in Holland and if that is the case then why would anyone have given him this position of power? @ goose, I always totally agree with you, we are playing out a demonstration of total embarrassment. So several things come to mind. 1 Is the problem with the management of KNVB and their selection process for coach? The coach has to be a good coach first no matter if he was a super star player or not. Good coaches develop talent and build chemistry, a la, Arsene Wenger, Sir Alex Ferguson, or Frank Rikjard. 2 Don’t know about being optimistic with regards to our talent pool. Still think we have enough world class strikers, mid-fielders, and defenders to rival any 11 another nation can field. Just need a sensible system and good coaching, also may be smart to select the best players available to Oranje. Make them secure with their role and their spot on the team and play them together as much as possible so that they develop a good re pore and understanding of each other. And then go and win some tournaments. 3 Is it true that Marco is maybe racist towards Suriname Dutch? I have heard this allot in Holland and if that is the case then why would anyone have given him this position of power?

]]> By: goose http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70493 goose Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:35:08 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70493 @misha: well, the dismissal of vanBasten was prob. just wishful thinking...i know how it will unfold, just like the way you say, at the EC with the whole world watching.. like always i totally agree..the fact that after more than 2 years vanBasten is still not able to play certain team for a few times in a row means he still hasnt got a clou in what the best team actually is....for more than twon years now there has been no progress shown...it actually gets worse everytime (altough Slov. game wasnt that bad)..still not sure if we all arent just to optimistic when it comes to the talent and how good we think this team is or should be... i mean, im always comparing with 1998 or 2000...i know we dont have the talent like we had then but are we really this bad??? Really hope KNVB will learn their lesson but mark my words..next bondscoach for Oranje: Ronald Koeman..another 1988 guy who really never learned the trade of being a coach/manager i remember when Co Adriaans said that a good footballer doenst nescessery (?) make a good manager...he was almost killed by an angry mob!! He was so very right!! MARCO BASTA!!! @misha: well, the dismissal of vanBasten was prob. just wishful thinking…i know how it will unfold, just like the way you say, at the EC with the whole world watching..
like always i totally agree..the fact that after more than 2 years vanBasten is still not able to play certain team for a few times in a row means he still hasnt got a clou in what the best team actually is….for more than twon years now there has been no progress shown…it actually gets worse everytime (altough Slov. game wasnt that bad)..still not sure if we all arent just to optimistic when it comes to the talent and how good we think this team is or should be… i mean, im always comparing with 1998 or 2000…i know we dont have the talent like we had then but are we really this bad???
Really hope KNVB will learn their lesson but mark my words..next bondscoach for Oranje: Ronald Koeman..another 1988 guy who really never learned the trade of being a coach/manager
i remember when Co Adriaans said that a good footballer doenst nescessery (?) make a good manager…he was almost killed by an angry mob!! He was so very right!!

MARCO BASTA!!!

]]> By: Misha http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html/comment-page-1#comment-70485 Misha Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:08:06 +0000 http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/afellay-what-a-week.html#comment-70485 Just been catching up on the post Slovenia talk. Baffles me that some Oranje fans seem to be under the impression that a lose to Slovenia would have equaled a change in management resulting in the release of Marco prior to the completion of the Euro tournament. I don't get that impression at all. Think were stuck with him until we fail on the big stage in front of the whole world, once again. I really think that as well as Affellay may have played it is a disgusting, stupid, and classless move on Marco's part to continually insult his "veteran" players. By showing no confidence in them and throwing in any new kid he can find in the AZ roster. Its like saying "well I know what you can do, and I think so little of it that I will take a chance on any flavor of the week player", rather than give the team a chance to develop chemistry with an established line-up comprised of a core of players that play more than one game at a time together. Does anyone remember how Oranje worked before Marco? There would be a couple of surprise starters now and again, but for the most part any one of us could have named the starting line-up prior to any game! Anyone who knows Dutch football could usually pick 7-8 of the starters correctly. Try that now! Who could predict the line-up against Romania? How many players have changed in one week to form the line-up we saw against Slovenia? Does anyone see the problem? how can the players develop chemistry and play better as a team with each other? Look at Portugal, Germany, France, etc. We could pick at least 7 of the starters for any of their games consistently. But not with genius Van Bastens team. You need a crystal ball and a strong knowledge of voodoo just to keep up with his selections. You know he keeps changing things cause nothing is working! But how can anything improve when 5 out of 11 starters are constantly changing? Now what sense does it make to sit Seedorf, VDVaart, Sneijder, Maduro, etc? And play a kid that Has no international experience, no chemistry playing with the other members of the team and no champion league experience to speak of? Not to mention that by putting him in instead of the players that you have a history with you are basically slapping them in the face in front of the entire football world. IE, Kuyt, Seedorf, Huntelaar, etc. These are the tactics of a confused and hopeless manager! we are doomed. Marco just does not know how to manage a team. Just been catching up on the post Slovenia talk. Baffles me that some Oranje fans seem to be under the impression that a lose to Slovenia would have equaled a change in management resulting in the release of Marco prior to the completion of the Euro tournament. I don’t get that impression at all. Think were stuck with him until we fail on the big stage in front of the whole world, once again. I really think that as well as Affellay may have played it is a disgusting, stupid, and classless move on Marco’s part to continually insult his “veteran” players. By showing no confidence in them and throwing in any new kid he can find in the AZ roster. Its like saying “well I know what you can do, and I think so little of it that I will take a chance on any flavor of the week player”, rather than give the team a chance to develop chemistry with an established line-up comprised of a core of players that play more than one game at a time together. Does anyone remember how Oranje worked before Marco? There would be a couple of surprise starters now and again, but for the most part any one of us could have named the starting line-up prior to any game! Anyone who knows Dutch football could usually pick 7-8 of the starters correctly. Try that now! Who could predict the line-up against Romania? How many players have changed in one week to form the line-up we saw against Slovenia? Does anyone see the problem? how can the players develop chemistry and play better as a team with each other? Look at Portugal, Germany, France, etc. We could pick at least 7 of the starters for any of their games consistently. But not with genius Van Bastens team. You need a crystal ball and a strong knowledge of voodoo just to keep up with his selections. You know he keeps changing things cause nothing is working! But how can anything improve when 5 out of 11 starters are constantly changing? Now what sense does it make to sit Seedorf, VDVaart, Sneijder, Maduro, etc? And play a kid that Has no international experience, no chemistry playing with the other members of the team and no champion league experience to speak of? Not to mention that by putting him in instead of the players that you have a history with you are basically slapping them in the face in front of the entire football world. IE, Kuyt, Seedorf, Huntelaar, etc. These are the tactics of a confused and hopeless manager! we are doomed. Marco just does not know how to manage a team.

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